Havoc DH #1 pick for M+ immune to nerfs

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
Can't have them nerfing DH.

Reverted nerf to their ridiculously strong AOE because they have to be ridiculously strong, not just really strong. Can't be nerfing the prized class of Blizzard
rogues, Dhs, Frost mages, Blood dk and disc priest should be nerfed to the ground, they were the only classes present during the MDIs, that yell that they are OP. Blizzard cant deny that now, all classes arent equal in terms of utility and dps.
And last year it was WW Monks and Aff locks

Back to your bench, warlocks. you have dominated the game for like 15 years LMFAO
11/06/2018 04:38 PMPosted by Ojoverde
rogues, Dhs, Frost mages, Blood dk and disc priest should be nerfed to the ground, they were the only classes present during the MDIs, that yell that they are OP. Blizzard cant deny that now, all classes arent equal in terms of utility and dps.

Agree for the DPS and Tank meta, well partially, nerfs are needed to bring those specs in-line with the rest, but nothing needs to be "nerfed to the ground".

Disagree for the healers though.. For the MDI we had 3 different healing specs represented with only 4 teams, with some more we would've probably seen a Holy paladin too.. According to Raider.io, 4 of the 6 healing specs have good representation in high keys, Resto Druid is actually higher up than Disc. The real outlier in the healing meta for M+ are Shamans and Holy Priest which definitely need some love, but the other 4 are all in a decent place.

@Ojoverde: So you say MDI showed that Disc needs to be nerfed to the ground (where 3/6 healers were represented).. Well if that's the case then 2 teams also used Affliction lock and actually that was one of the only 3 ranged DPS specs used (out of 11 possible) so clearly that one should be nerfed to the ground too right?

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Edit: Based on performance in Raids (Mythic in particular) I do recognize Disc indeed needs some targeted nerfs, the ones in the PTR are already pretty big ones though, hopefully Blizzard gets it right and makes the appropriate changes needed to keep us balanced in Raiding without killing the spec in M+.
rogues, Dhs, Frost mages, Blood dk and disc priest should be nerfed to the ground, they were the only classes present during the MDIs, that yell that they are OP. Blizzard cant deny that now, all classes arent equal in terms of utility and dps. Agree for the DPS and Tank meta, well partially, nerfs are needed to bring those specs in-line with the rest, but nothing needs to be "nerfed to the ground".

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Definitely not a nerfed to the ground but at least a nerf because even blizzard says they do too much.
I think a nerf is coming, Blizz just wants to target it a bit better. For DH, just nerfing Eyebeam not only gives the AoE nerf Blizzard is intending, but also hurts ST, which isn't nearly as good for DH. A good call by Blizzard to actually think about how to balance correctly rather than the usual chainsaw method of balance.
Doesn't matter how much you nerf the damage (Unless you make them unworkable in raids too), as long as rogues are the only ones with mass stealth, DKs are the only ones with mass grip, mages are the only ones with mass aoe slows, and DHs are the only ones with reliable mass stuns, they'll still be pretty auto pick for high M+

Niche utility is cool, but it doesn't really work when some niches are vastly more common and more powerful than others. And then there are specs with little to no useful utility, when others have multiple incredibly desirable abilities.
11/07/2018 01:34 AMPosted by Hpellipsis
Doesn't matter how much you nerf the damage (Unless you make them unworkable in raids too), as long as rogues are the only ones with mass stealth, DKs are the only ones with mass grip, mages are the only ones with mass aoe slows, and DHs are the only ones with reliable mass stuns, they'll still be pretty auto pick for high M+

Niche utility is cool, but it doesn't really work when some niches are vastly more common and more powerful than others. And then there are specs with little to no useful utility, when others have multiple incredibly desirable abilities.


This is partially true. They could, also, design content to not require cheesy utility. So, if there was a lot less trash in the dungeons, for example, you wouldn't need the rogue mass stealth so much.

But, yes, ultimately, it isn't just a damage issue. Class balance is a combination of damage and utility, and Blizz has failed on both counts.
11/06/2018 04:38 PMPosted by Ojoverde
Blizzard cant deny that now, all classes arent equal in terms of utility and dps.


Ion H got up on CAMERA at the beginning of the xpac and explained that many specs were not going live ready for live.

You idiots really need to stop circle jerking for balance from the bottom, especially since what you're asking for isn't actually intended.

Do what you said you were going to do Blizzard, buff the weak and leave the strong alone. It presents more options and is a far better way to raise the number of hours played on a /day basis if you have many fun and functional specs.
Problem is Ion insists some classes must have glaring weaknesses (ie Rets sucking at AoE and mobility, Shadow Priest awful mobility and ramp, MM basically no AoE, Elemental weaker ST etc) as part of their "strengths and weaknesses" class design but then other spec like Havoc that get to be immune to this philosophy and be good at everything with no weakness.

Great single target, great burst, amazing cleave and AoE while just doing their "ST" rotation so they still do max ST damage to priority target while still also doing more AoE than other classes who are sacrificing their ST to do AoE, best mobility in the game, amazing utility (aoe stun, purge, 5% magic debuff for whole raid, insta cast hard CC, darkness) AND top self healing (number one in healing among dps according to logs). So what is their "strength and weakness" exactly? They do great to amazing at everything.

Meanwhile you got specs like Ret who do awful AoE that sacrifices literally 50% of their ST damage (TV) just to do bottom tier AoE, terrible wheelchair mobility, and all this trades for their only alleged "strength" of ST where they are only lower middle of the pack at best and still lose to AoE gods like Havoc in ST lol. So why ever take one of these specs with built in weaknesses over a master of all like Havoc?
11/06/2018 04:38 PMPosted by Ojoverde
rogues, Dhs, Frost mages, Blood dk and disc priest should be nerfed to the ground, they were the only classes present during the MDIs, that yell that they are OP. Blizzard cant deny that now, all classes arent equal in terms of utility and dps.


Frost mages was nerfed actually. They still will be good for m+ due to the aoe slow. It is their mechanic, you can't really blame mages for being one of minority that is pretty well designed.
... or, and here me out here, maybe other specs could be made more competitive - combination of buffing their damage and utility. You know, rather than making everything feel like crap to play, make everything feel good to play.
Yeah, that massive 1.5 second slow, that is all that remains after the nerf, is going to be sooo useful!
11/07/2018 01:25 AMPosted by Diaboliqa
I think a nerf is coming, Blizz just wants to target it a bit better. For DH, just nerfing Eyebeam not only gives the AoE nerf Blizzard is intending, but also hurts ST, which isn't nearly as good for DH. A good call by Blizzard to actually think about how to balance correctly rather than the usual chainsaw method of balance.


Maybe they shouldn't have made every DH ability have cleave.
11/07/2018 08:16 AMPosted by Mofuggaz
11/07/2018 01:25 AMPosted by Diaboliqa
I think a nerf is coming, Blizz just wants to target it a bit better. For DH, just nerfing Eyebeam not only gives the AoE nerf Blizzard is intending, but also hurts ST, which isn't nearly as good for DH. A good call by Blizzard to actually think about how to balance correctly rather than the usual chainsaw method of balance.


Maybe they shouldn't have made every DH ability have cleave.


Or instead of nerfing DH bring the other classes upto par with eachother.
11/07/2018 07:57 AMPosted by Djarro
... or, and here me out here, maybe other specs could be made more competitive - combination of buffing their damage and utility. You know, rather than making everything feel like crap to play, make everything feel good to play.


This is a fools dream. Are you even playing the same game as me?

Blizzard never buffs the weak up to the strong they always always nerf.

I know my hunter will never be brought up to the level of a DH so why in the hell would I ask for buffs when blizzard will never buff me. Asking for nerfs is the only way the game can get balanced.
11/07/2018 08:22 AMPosted by Maybeitsroxx
11/07/2018 08:16 AMPosted by Mofuggaz
...

Maybe they shouldn't have made every DH ability have cleave.


Or instead of nerfing DH bring the other classes upto par with eachother.


They've literally never done that before. Why would that change?
11/07/2018 08:23 AMPosted by Mofuggaz
This is a fools dream.


Probably. I guess I'd rather be a fool with a dream.
11/07/2018 08:26 AMPosted by Djarro
11/07/2018 08:23 AMPosted by Mofuggaz
This is a fools dream.


Probably. I guess I'd rather be a fool with a dream.


I'd rather have results.
In EU we call them demon kings, for a reason.
Best PvE and PvP spec in the game.
Best mobility of any class.
Best surviability of any DPS.
Best cleave DPS.
One of the best single target consistent DPS in PvP.
Strong burst.
Insane utility.
Really good CC.

Only weakness: roots.

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