Why Stormheim is enough reason for War

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11/07/2018 06:44 PMPosted by Granfaloon

Like denying aid to a nation being ravaged by undead?


Hypocritical from a blood elf to criticize Gilneas for doing the same thing that Quel'thalas did.
11/09/2018 08:49 PMPosted by Mowachassa
11/07/2018 06:44 PMPosted by Granfaloon

Like denying aid to a nation being ravaged by undead?


Hypocritical from a blood elf to criticize Gilneas for doing the same thing that Quel'thalas did.


I saw Elves aiding Lordaeron forces during the initial outbreak. I didn't see any Gilneans.
11/09/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Carmageddon
Stormheim absolutely justified the war against the Alliance. I mean...that should go without saying and my only frustration is how most of the NPCs in game seemed to think it was not that big a deal that the Alliance launched a surprise offensive against the Horde during the Legion invasion, and explicitly tried to assassinate the Warchief.

If anything *close* to Stormheim happened in the real world between two rival powers, war would be immediate.

My problem with Sylvanas isn't her retaliation against the Alliance. It's the fact that the story has her retaliating by committing horrific war crimes and making me complicit.


In theory, if the worst case scenario happens with Sylvanas (which I think it will at this point) and her goals also include the destruction of the Horde, is war still justified? Where Genn May have unintentionally saved Azeroth? It was after all Sylvanas’ decision whether to go to war or not since she’s warchief.
11/09/2018 08:56 PMPosted by Thilena
11/09/2018 08:49 PMPosted by Mowachassa
...

Hypocritical from a blood elf to criticize Gilneas for doing the same thing that Quel'thalas did.


I saw Elves aiding Lordaeron forces during the initial outbreak. I didn't see any Gilneans.


How would you tell the difference if there were Gilneans helping there? It's rather hard to tell which humans are from where unless they actually state? Though any aid sent would have been by Crowley. We know he sent people with Jaina later, so it's entirely possible.

Also, all the elves you saw there were described as sticking with the old Alliance against the orders of their king. They weren't aid from Quel'thelas.
11/09/2018 08:56 PMPosted by Thilena
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Hypocritical from a blood elf to criticize Gilneas for doing the same thing that Quel'thalas did.


I saw Elves aiding Lordaeron forces during the initial outbreak. I didn't see any Gilneans.


Elves from Dalaran, probably of the Kirin Tor.
11/09/2018 08:56 PMPosted by Thilena
11/09/2018 08:49 PMPosted by Mowachassa
...

Hypocritical from a blood elf to criticize Gilneas for doing the same thing that Quel'thalas did.


I saw Elves aiding Lordaeron forces during the initial outbreak. I didn't see any Gilneans.


Openly leaves the Alliance just after the second war. Deny to send help to a nation being ravaged by the undead. The same undead ravages Quel'thalas. Blames the same Alliance they left for not sending help. What.
It is ridiculous for the horde to seek excuses like the beating that Genn applied to Syl, as a justification for his leader's idiotic war.

She says she's fighting to get control over Azerithe! Not because Greymane beat her and ruined her ambitions to enslave the Queen of the Valkyr!

And after deserting the Alliance on Borken Shore, she deserved!
And after discovering that she wanted to increase her power, and then used it against the alliance, it just justifies the punch that Genn gave her!
If she had succeeded, she would be using that power now, against the Alliance!
And what makes these !@#$%^-*!iac hordes think that only their necrosed leader would have reason to attack?

Genn's attack was not without reason!
From the end of MOP, the Lich Queen of the horde, kept prowling around Gilneas, (without ever stopping attacking her while Vol'jin made a fool of her and did not order her to return the region to Ally, whereas the horde stopped attacking the Nelfs in Azshara at the request of Varian), keeping a threatening presence in Arathi and researching more about blight!

She was still at war with Gilneas! Had he given up on Gilneas and then, perhaps, Genn would not go out there, beating those depraved cheeks!
imagine if sylvanas manages to enslave eyir
odyn and all ulduar decides to punish the horde for their insolence because it would sabotage the protection of azeroth, because odyn spent many centuries forming his army do defend azeroth and sylvanas goes and screw everything.
the horde destroy any chance to get the aegis of agrammar or maybe odyn even asks the alliance to prove themselves killing all the horde they could if they want the aegis.
genn did the right thing, sylvanas would help the legion by doing something so retarded because of selfishness
EDIT: and in the alliance's eyes, sylvanas betrayed varian, the alliance had every reason to hunt her
A vykrul allied race would have been really interesting from a lore perspective. Bringing out the untamed "savage" side of the Alliance as well as giving them a chance to shine again post-Legion.
11/09/2018 10:34 PMPosted by Iyoma

How would you tell the difference if there were Gilneans helping there? It's rather hard to tell which humans are from where unless they actually state? Though any aid sent would have been by Crowley. We know he sent people with Jaina later, so it's entirely possible.


https://wow.gamepedia.com/Gilneas_(kingdom)#The_Greymane_Wall_and_the_Third_War

Gilneas was shielded from the rest of the world, by the Greymane Wall by land and by its high cliffs and treacherous reefs by sea.[13] Refugees and other nations long entreated Gilneas for aid, but these unfortunates never so much as saw a Gilnean.


Now, we know the Gilnean brigade was indeed sent later by Crowley, but as it turns out, this was a major act of rebellion and was the reason for Crowley to be incarcerated:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Northgate_Rebellion#The_final_straw

We don't know of any cases of Elves being imprisoned or punished for attempting to help Lordaeron. I haven't read Chronicles 3 yet, does it confirm that this happened?

11/10/2018 05:01 AMPosted by Mowachassa

Elves from Dalaran, probably of the Kirin Tor.


Nope, Quel'thalas.

https://youtu.be/uaou7gq0FGM?t=960
11/10/2018 05:08 AMPosted by Mowachassa
11/09/2018 08:56 PMPosted by Thilena
...

I saw Elves aiding Lordaeron forces during the initial outbreak. I didn't see any Gilneans.


Openly leaves the Alliance just after the second war. Deny to send help to a nation being ravaged by the undead. The same undead ravages Quel'thalas. Blames the same Alliance they left for not sending help. What.

At least the bloodelves sent forces after Quel'thalas fell.
Gilneas just made everything worse by unleashing Worgen on the area.
And the bloodelves were imprisoned and sentenced to death while fighting the undead, by the alliance.
Have we ever even gotten a confirm on what faction canonically find the ledger in Azsuna? Because that has a huge effect on both justifications for Stormheim, and also on Genn and Rogers being able to tapdance out of consequences after the fact.
11/07/2018 06:44 PMPosted by Granfaloon

It's not like the alliance would consider themselves badguys if they killed every last forsaken. Would anyone call it genocide?


Anduin would.
Assassinating a head of State is absolutely a cause for war, this one just happened to be a just and heroic act as well. I mean, if someone from Eastern Europe shot Stalin mid speech they'd probably be a national hero today.
11/09/2018 10:34 PMPosted by Iyoma

How would you tell the difference if there were Gilneans helping there? It's rather hard to tell which humans are from where unless they actually state? Though any aid sent would have been by Crowley. We know he sent people with Jaina later, so it's entirely possible.


https://wow.gamepedia.com/Gilneas_(kingdom)#The_Greymane_Wall_and_the_Third_War

Gilneas was shielded from the rest of the world, by the Greymane Wall by land and by its high cliffs and treacherous reefs by sea.[13] Refugees and other nations long entreated Gilneas for aid, but these unfortunates never so much as saw a Gilnean.


Now, we know the Gilnean brigade was indeed sent later by Crowley, but as it turns out, this was a major act of rebellion and was the reason for Crowley to be incarcerated:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Northgate_Rebellion#The_final_straw

We don't know of any cases of Elves being imprisoned or punished for attempting to help Lordaeron. I haven't read Chronicles 3 yet, does it confirm that this happened?

11/10/2018 05:01 AMPosted by Mowachassa

Elves from Dalaran, probably of the Kirin Tor.


Nope, Quel'thalas.

https://youtu.be/uaou7gq0FGM?t=960


Those Priests probably where in lordaeron by their own, being generous like priests should be, i didn't see something like a true army or force sent in words by Anasterian. No matter how much points you made, it doesn't exclude the fact that gilneas and quel'thalas just left lordaeron to it's fate, if we got the combined armies of the 3 nations fighting the undead before they get too strong and numerous, the outcome would be so different.
When the priests first showed up, Lordaeron was not seen as being attacked by an army, they were assumed to be under the effects of a plague.

There's no indication that Lordaeron had asked anybody else for help claiming that there was an invasion, so why would they send military troops? The Dwarves in the area were hunters or direct allies of the military forces already there.

By the time the full scale of the threat is realized, Arthas had already culled Stratholme and chased the Scourge forces back to Northrend.
I want the glasses the horde use to view the lore.
11/11/2018 07:57 PMPosted by Katiera
I want the glasses the horde use to view the lore.


Well, you might not like them. They don't use things that occurred after a person's actions to retroactively justify them.
Horde being lazy enough to not reach out to the Alliance after Broken Shore deserves a Stormheim ten times over.

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