Alliance buffs coming in 8.1

War Mode and World PvP
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See, I'm the opposite. I can't imagine playing without Warmode on. The worst situation involving imbalance I've experianced happened just a couple nights ago. I was questing with a friend in Stormsong on our newly minted 120 alts. We went to Bennadam (sp?) and there was a 12 Horde group, about 6 with bounties, killing everything and everyone, Player and NPC alike, in town. Of course, my friend and I got slaughtered as soon as the bird landed at the FP. However, as we were heading back to our bodies, there was quite the lively discussion in General chat about it, and mostly involved people complaining about imbalance, talking about switching off WM, and what not. Eventually we all said screw it, rezing up, and gathered outside of town. We buffed up and rolled 15 deep and slaughtered all the Horde there. We then chased them out of the town, all the way back to the Horde base, and out of the zone. All of us were Slayer buffed by the end. We started thinking of ourselves as victims, and instead cleaned them out.

It was one of my favorite nights in recent memory and yet another reason I love being in WM. These are the memories I would not have if I skipped it. It was also that night that I noticed the effect of the population controls. There always seems to be Alliance around when there are Horde about causing mischief, so apparently the system works. Congrats Blizz.
11/14/2018 04:37 PMPosted by Ythisens
11/11/2018 03:49 PMPosted by Wintel
...Is Ion for real? He thinks that increased rewards will bring alliance back into warmode, when the vast majority of alliance have forgotten that warmode even exists?

This kind of measure is too little too late. A few alliance may turn on warmode, find themselves getting facing repeated 10v1 situations and then turn it off again.


Some time ago we made a hotfix to War Mode which enforces all War Mode shards that have both Alliance and Horde in them to have a stricter, more even ratio. We’ve been monitoring the results and so far we’ve noticed a significant improvement in “fair and balanced” shards. So much so that it’s safe to say that if you are Alliance, and you see Horde in the outdoor world in War Mode, you are a relatively even horde to alliance ratio shard. There are some rare exceptions, such as when a raid of 40 players enter a zone. It may take a bit for the “shard manager” to compensate and balance the shard.

We do have some plans in store in Tides of Vengeance (Patch 8.1) to entice the underrepresented faction with greater rewards to increase participation and create more active Horde/Allianced mixed War Mode shards. The intent of those rewards is not to give the underrepresented faction some “compensation” for being outnumbered in a War Mode shard (since that really can’t happen anymore).

We're also looking forward to what you all think about the Incursions in War Mode for 8.1, since it brings Horde and Alliance to the same location which should create some pretty fun skirmishes.


Have you guys not considered the old buff for the lower-pop faction that was in place back during the old Wintergrasp days? What was it... Tenacity? Why not just buff the stats of the underrepresented faction when fighting other players, but make sure it's only for that, but not for PVE.

This new sharding is literally going back to what we had before this - PVP servers and non-PVP servers. I was one of many Alliance players who was excited for Warmode but quickly gave up on it, because getting slammed by a group of 5+ Horde just isn't fun. If you think more rewards will fix this or even balancing shards, then I am afraid to say you all don't even understand the inherent problem. The problem is the fact that Horde is just better at grouping up and likes to go around farming Alliance players who are out on their own, doing things like archaeology. Just buff the underrepped faction. More rewards? Doubt it will be enough. Another 10% maybe? Woopeeeee.
11/14/2018 04:37 PMPosted by Ythisens
<span class="truncated">...</span>Is Ion for real? He thinks that increased rewards will bring alliance back into warmode, when the vast majority of alliance have forgotten that warmode even exists?

This kind of measure is too little too late. A few alliance may turn on warmode, find themselves getting facing repeated 10v1 situations and then turn it off again.


Some time ago we made a hotfix to War Mode which enforces all War Mode shards that have both Alliance and Horde in them to have a stricter, more even ratio. We’ve been monitoring the results and so far we’ve noticed a significant improvement in “fair and balanced” shards. So much so that it’s safe to say that if you are Alliance, and you see Horde in the outdoor world in War Mode, you are a relatively even horde to alliance ratio shard. There are some rare exceptions, such as when a raid of 40 players enter a zone. It may take a bit for the “shard manager” to compensate and balance the shard.

We do have some plans in store in Tides of Vengeance (Patch 8.1) to entice the underrepresented faction with greater rewards to increase participation and create more active Horde/Allianced mixed War Mode shards. The intent of those rewards is not to give the underrepresented faction some “compensation” for being outnumbered in a War Mode shard (since that really can’t happen anymore).

We're also looking forward to what you all think about the Incursions in War Mode for 8.1, since it brings Horde and Alliance to the same location which should create some pretty fun skirmishes.


Here's my two cents on this... PVE mythic raiding and PVP high arena ranking are embarrassingly unbalanced. Regardless of what you do to balance the number of people on a server (excuse my french here) it's plebs vs pros. I would all caps this next statement if it wouldn't discount my credibility: fix the high level content faction imbalance first and foremost.
As Alliance,

If I'm still going to find myself in 1v5 situations agaisnt horde, I will turn WM off again. It's better to do 10 WQ fast, than to not do them at all.
11/15/2018 06:19 AMPosted by Konigstíger
As Alliance,

If I'm still going to find myself in 1v5 situations agaisnt horde, I will turn WM off again. It's better to do 10 WQ fast, than to not do them at all.


1000000x THIS. Getting killed and camped by raid groups is NOT fun. I'd be all for being able to toggle war mode OFF (not back on) while you're dead. At least that way you won't have to play "GOD I HOPE I CAN HEARTH OR WHISTLE BEFORE I GET GANKED AGAIN (and again and again and again)."

I was excited for war mode when BFA hit. But I have a job and a life and didn't ding 120 in less than 24 hours like most of the horde kiddies did. By the time i was lvling thru the zones, they were STOCKED with horde raid groups. I switched War Mode off before Mythic Uldir even dropped. Haven't missed the incessant ganking one bit.
Maybe they could add some type of mercenary mode where say, for an hour, the over-represented faction could become a mercenary. It would let them also reap the bonus rewards, but they will be flagged as the enemy faction.

Something like that could be fun imo
11/15/2018 05:02 AMPosted by Phosphoruss
Here's my two cents on this... PVE mythic raiding and PVP high arena ranking are embarrassingly unbalanced. Regardless of what you do to balance the number of people on a server (excuse my french here) it's plebs vs pros. I would all caps this next statement if it wouldn't discount my credibility: fix the high level content faction imbalance first and foremost.

Imagine this. Horde have 5x as many people in war mode as Alliance. Blizzard therefore changes the Alliance bonus from 10% to 50%, so that both factions get the same total amount of bonus. Meanwhile, the racials are equalized.

Don't you think some of the top mythic raiding and high ranked PVP groups would faction switch back to Alliance pretty quick? After all, they can easily form groups that can take over world quest locations long enough to complete them. They could grab enough extra Azerite to unlock an extra trait or two each, which would help quite a bit in progression or PVP.

Then once people see Alliance starting to move up on the leaderboards, some others will switch, while Alliance who previously considered cutting edge raiding and PVP to be hopeless will take it up.

It's exactly the high end faction balance that is being targeted here.
11/15/2018 06:37 AMPosted by Iamsquishy
Maybe they could add some type of mercenary mode where say, for an hour, the over-represented faction could become a mercenary. It would let them also reap the bonus rewards, but they will be flagged as the enemy faction.

Something like that could be fun imo

Fun for Horde, maybe, but it would make the underlying problem worse. We've already got the problem in battlegrounds where Horde mercs push strategies that mirror strategies that work for Horde, but don't actually work for Alliance due to map asymmetries.
11/14/2018 11:44 PMPosted by Gempalm
Why are devs so obsessed with telling types of people how to play? Alliance like wearing shiny stuff and having soft skin. If they don't care about pvping, stop forcing it, after all these years.

A blood elf talking about Alliance wanting "shiny stuff and having soft skin"?

I turned war mode on as soon as it was available. I've never turned it off. My killing blows to deaths ratio in world PVP is about 10:1. I like Alliance because it's hardmode for PVP, and adversity makes one stronger.

Now, I recognize Alliance on Normal shards are facing a bigger imbalance than I am, and some dedicated PVP people were pushed into turning war mode off. But they want to be in war mode, and they are okay with being outnumbered, as long as it's not 10-1 so they have a slim fighting chance.

Nobody is talking about "forcing" Alliance to PVP. Blizzard is just trying to set things up so that war mode, which can be one of the game's most enjoyable features for many of us, is available to both factions in a practical way. Hopefully not too many of the hard core Alliance PVP folks have unsubscribed. I know some that have not yet unsubscribed are already turning war mode back on.
11/15/2018 06:19 AMPosted by Konigstíger
As Alliance,

If I'm still going to find myself in 1v5 situations agaisnt horde, I will turn WM off again. It's better to do 10 WQ fast, than to not do them at all.

If the bonus is large enough, it may become worthwhile to group up and make those 1v5 situations into 5v5 situations. That's what I do when it's necessary.
Go back to PvE, PvP and RP-PvP servers and let people with common interest play together once again. Giving one faction more rewards than the other is not the way to fix a Blizzard Tech problem. The tech problem is dead servers and not being able to manage population properly. Sharding looked good on paper but failed in practice. Blizzard is out of touch that in open world WPvP it wasn't about Red vs Blue, it was about rivalries from other players and guilds.

Blizzard you sharded the bed and you are now taking a laxative by giving "rewards" to players for turning on warmode.
Gotta stop abusing the Alliance and actually give us good content, good racials, more incentives, etc, if you want to actually address the issue. Should have been solved years ago.

Stop making Alliance flaming sissies, stop making Horde infallible.

Give Alliance Justice for Horde crimes and stop giving us crap cosmetics.

It's really a case of too little too late, guys. Maybe simply the ivory tower approach to handling community issues has been backfiring this whole time and you're just now seeing it?

Oh who am I kidding? This is Blizzard, they don't care.
I joined the Horde community because it is active in PVP. Unfortunately, that is not the case with Alliance. Racials are 1-3% damage things... how can that even be a deciding factor if you faction participates in Warmode or not.

I will say one thing. In Warmode, Alliance areas definitely more feel like Horde areas.
11/15/2018 07:30 AMPosted by Thüne
Gotta stop abusing the Alliance and actually give us good content, good racials, more incentives, etc, if you want to actually address the issue. Should have been solved years ago.

Stop making Alliance flaming sissies, stop making Horde infallible.

Give Alliance Justice for Horde crimes and stop giving us crap cosmetics.

It's really a case of too little too late, guys. Maybe simply the ivory tower approach to handling community issues has been backfiring this whole time and you're just now seeing it?

Oh who am I kidding? This is Blizzard, they don't care.


Maybe we can get Elite Tauren Chieftain to play us all a Eulogy.
11/15/2018 07:30 AMPosted by Thüne
Give Alliance Justice for Horde crimes and stop giving us crap cosmetics.


They could throw submissive nudes all over the place at this point. Pointless if your extremities aren't working properly.
11/15/2018 07:30 AMPosted by Thüne
Gotta stop abusing the Alliance and actually give us good content, good racials, more incentives, etc, if you want to actually address the issue. Should have been solved years ago.

Stop making Alliance flaming sissies, stop making Horde infallible.

Give Alliance Justice for Horde crimes and stop giving us crap cosmetics.

It's really a case of too little too late, guys. Maybe simply the ivory tower approach to handling community issues has been backfiring this whole time and you're just now seeing it?

Oh who am I kidding? This is Blizzard, they don't care.


The Alliance HAD ONE good racial. And the horde cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried and cried until it was nerfed and basically removed. EMFH. RIP.
Re to
The best way to get raids to phase against other raids is for the server software to keep out of it. PVP raids specifically seek out other raids, and have the ability to shard to those other raids. The players will make this happen naturally if the software stays out of things and doesn't overload shards by trying to balance them with questers that want no part in a big battle.

And after this shard starts lagging as !@#$. If we’re gonna think about 2 raids vs 2 raids it’s immediately fu ck up, cuz of architecture
I had warmode on for my leveling, because everyone had it on and you could call for help. Now, most of the time I just want to run a WQ and get out, because of the imbalance I don't even turn it on anymore.

I think 2 things would fix this:
1. let WM guys chat to nonWM to say "hey, battle here, go turn on WM and join us"
2. depending on the logistics, give players who die without an HK get a PVP Dmg reduction of 5% per death in open world pvp. Get ganked 20x and you have 100% dmg reduction until you get an HK. If they can't kill you 1v5 doesn't matter.

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