"Blizzard listened...

Classic Discussion
No, its not abject BS at all. Its simply truth.
11/13/2018 03:54 PMPosted by Valeria
...to the community. That's how we got BfA."

Where did this line of thinking come from, because it's abject BS. I never wanted scaling, pruning, no flying, lfr, lfg, sharding, rng, or any of that.

Get absolutely rekt with that [Removed] nonsense.


Maybe you didnt but the masses that outnumber you DID.

And thats where that narrative comes from. Have you been to General? Do you see how they laugh at classic, with its old grindy content, and how everything takes too long, and its limited flight paths and etc etc?

THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE that were asking for that stuff all those years. They got it. And we left.

I very clearly remember people asking to be able to fly in classic lands as soon as it was in BC. I remember people saying getting their flying mount was the highlight of TBC, I remember people rejoicing for combined server battlegrounds and the LFG system when it was added to WOTLK. People !@#$ing loved their welfare epics when they were added, and completely adored draping their alts with overpowered heirlooms once upon a time.

Its nonsense to pretend they didnt want that stuff. They did. I remember it clearly, and little by little that crap killed the game.
11/13/2018 06:43 PMPosted by Ciphon
I very clearly remember people asking to be able to fly in classic lands as soon as it was in BC. I remember people saying getting their flying mount was the highlight of TBC, I remember people rejoicing for combined server battlegrounds and the LFG system when it was added to WOTLK. People !@#$ing loved their welfare epics when they were added, and completely adored draping their alts with overpowered heirlooms once upon a time.

Its nonsense to pretend they didnt want that stuff. They did. I remember it clearly, and little by little that crap killed the game.


Was starting to think I was the only one who remembered this. And also not all but some did love the fact BC killed off 40 man raid teams. I mean if you want to get right down to it when it comes to pointing the finger at why the game is the way it is, blame the classic players. Because when you think about it we got the ball rolling.
11/13/2018 03:54 PMPosted by Valeria
...to the community. That's how we got BfA."

Where did this line of thinking come from, because it's abject BS. I never wanted scaling, pruning, no flying, lfr, lfg, sharding, rng, or any of that.

Get absolutely rekt with that [Removed] nonsense.


People wanted it. They wanted QoL in the game. They didn't want to level up a weapon, They didn't want to have to walk. They didn't want to have to feed a pet. They didn't want spirit on their plate. They didn't want a struggle to level and gear up alts. They didn't want to have to click on itmes to put things into their bags. Everything that represents what an MMORPG is has been stripped and removed and in it's place are QoL to get people what they want quickly. 0-120 fast and then fast gearing.,,,power gear up in an M.

This is no longer an MMORPG.....it is an MMO. The whole world is a giant queue to get you that gear. To slow you down you have RNG and time gates. When Blizz offered gold for free time the game became F2P and since you can buy gold the game is P2W as well. AoC next year.
11/13/2018 03:54 PMPosted by Valeria
...to the community. That's how we got BfA."

Where did this line of thinking come from, because it's abject BS. I never wanted scaling, pruning, no flying, lfr, lfg, sharding, rng, or any of that.

Get absolutely rekt with that [Removed] nonsense.


its pretty easy to understand.

people wanted conveniences because they wanted easier progression (less work). the more conveniences that people got, the less they had to work and the less they had to learn. the less they had to work, the less they had to learn, the less skillful that person became. the less they had to work, the less they had to learn and the less skillful they became, the more they blamed and pointed fingers.

some examples: Instead of learning how to master your class, all you have to do is scream for the class that is besting you- to be nerfed and what does that do? it creates the idea that there is skill without the work. it tells a player that even though they suck at their class, they can still be projected as a good player. even if by intervention by an entity/being.

this is one of the main reasons why BM hunter is nerfed more than any other class. while some ignorant people can claim that BM is easy mode, they were once the hardest class to play and maintain (required a lot of skill and consistency). not only ammo, not only pet food, not only CC and their other expected specializations (pulling etc) but also to tame, learn abilities and teach them to their pet as well. they were the most extensive. on top of that, they were expected to have decent dps.
BM gets bestial wrath nerfed because it used to be able to break cc like fear. but yet mage keeps their ice block, that does the exact same thing. the only difference, is that a mage can not attack while ice blocked. do you not see that as weird? it doesnt matter how many times you nerf a BM, how many excuses you make (which seems to be almost every expansion, if not more than that)- a skillful player, will always destroy a player who wants a hand out, just so they can be projected as good.

when you give people such huge conveniences, there is absolutely zero incentive to learn how to play. why should they?

thats like saying that a kid will learn to clean up their own room, be active and responsible- when you are cleaning it up for them and telling them its okay, we will pretend that you did it. they are never going to learn responsibility and thus, knowledge. and that leads us to where we are today.

thats why these people WANT changes to a historical recreation of vanilla. because they refuse to face the reality that they actually have no idea how to play the game or their class and instead of sticking to a place where the mirror is a beautiful illusion, they expect that parent to follow them around, no matter where they go and clean up their mess for them.
11/13/2018 04:15 PMPosted by Azerothinian
11/13/2018 04:07 PMPosted by Dibullba
Remember the event before WotLK was released?

Yeah, I remember how much griefing there was.

11/13/2018 04:07 PMPosted by Dibullba
How it was ended early

Thank goodness. One of the worst events in WoW's history.


LoL no it wasn't it was the best event in wows history. Nothing comes close to it, even though they tried to replicate it in legions pre event.
You are one of those poeple who just can't enjoy the game as it was given to you to the point you needed to whine about changes.
MMOs were probably never meant for people who didn't like multiplayer games.
I'd argue retail ended up like it did because Blizzard didn't listen to the community (hence vanilla sharding and loot trading).

There was ample proof in the WoD/Legion/BFA beta feedback forums which all conveniently got removed.

Do people not remember all the good players quiting before Legion because they had pages and pages of constructive feedback and Blizzard ignored it all and then played dumb telling the community they never heard those complaints during the beta?
11/13/2018 06:57 PMPosted by Sigmaris
11/13/2018 06:43 PMPosted by Ciphon
I very clearly remember people asking to be able to fly in classic lands as soon as it was in BC. I remember people saying getting their flying mount was the highlight of TBC, I remember people rejoicing for combined server battlegrounds and the LFG system when it was added to WOTLK. People !@#$ing loved their welfare epics when they were added, and completely adored draping their alts with overpowered heirlooms once upon a time.

Its nonsense to pretend they didnt want that stuff. They did. I remember it clearly, and little by little that crap killed the game.


Was starting to think I was the only one who remembered this. And also not all but some did love the fact BC killed off 40 man raid teams. I mean if you want to get right down to it when it comes to pointing the finger at why the game is the way it is, blame the classic players. Because when you think about it we got the ball rolling.


I agree and have said before I remember people making forums post about these things, about how 40 man raids were extreme, about how traveling was slow, leveling was painful, always being broke, class balance etc. Well we got fixes to all these things. Some people may look back and be like damn maybe the old way was the good way and that is fine you know the saying be careful what you wish for, but lets not pretend blizzard put these things in game out of the blue and no one asked for them, just about everyone asked for them.
Retail started to go down hill when blizzard stopped listening to the community.... or rather when they started listening to the vocal minority instead of the people who were enjoying the game.

BC and Wrath were both better games than vanilla and a large part of that was because blizzard was taking positive suggestions from the community. It wasn't until Cata that they started listening to people whining and that's when we started to get things like Cata heroics, or when they just completely started doing their own thing and ignored the community altogether and we got things like no flying.
11/13/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Ziryus
Retail started to go down hill when blizzard stopped listening to the community.... or rather when they started listening to the vocal minority instead of the people who were enjoying the game.

BC and Wrath were both better games than vanilla and a large part of that was because blizzard was taking positive suggestions from the community. It wasn't until Cata that they started listening to people whining and that's when we started to get things like Cata heroics, or when they just completely started doing their own thing and ignored the community altogether and we got things like no flying.
wrath was better story and that's about it.
11/13/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Ziryus
Retail started to go down hill when blizzard stopped listening to the community.... or rather when they started listening to the vocal minority instead of the people who were enjoying the game.


It started going downhill when they took on the esports and mlg raiding community. They ruined the MMORPG side of it and make the entire thing streamlined with no content outside of endgame.
Posted by Dibullba
Remember the event before WotLK was released?

it was a Great event , A real plague , didnt matter if you were Horde or Alliance .
Dont want to catch it ,,easy, keep out the citys ... lots of cry babys stopped it early .
You may not have but clearly the majority did. I certainly wanted, and absolutely loved, flying. I love scaling, though i would have preferred proper progression.

I even wanted and enjoyed lfr while it was a real thing (not a short gear treadmill).

Pruning was an obvious choice, although i doubt anyone knows why they decided to shave with a battleaxe.

Sharding was only ever relevant to the gogogo questers so no idea why that was done.

Rng has existed since before either of us were born so no idea what you mean here.

Overall yes, those changes certainly WERE asked for by great majorities. Why do you think direct democracy isn't a thing? Most humans are ignorant racist small minded animals who can't even properly see and prepare for next month, let alone the next generation (expansion).
11/13/2018 08:09 PMPosted by Steamengine
Posted by Dibullba
Remember the event before WotLK was released?

it was a Great event , A real plague , didnt matter if you were Horde or Alliance .
Dont want to catch it ,,easy, keep out the citys ... lots of cry babys stopped it early .


I literally never even knew about it until this thread.
11/13/2018 06:43 PMPosted by Ciphon
Maybe you didnt but the masses that outnumber you DID.

Maybe at one point, way back in late Wrath and early Cata. I probably supported LFD back then, but after awhile of playing I came to realize how bad it was for the game. I think most people eventually realized the game wasn't the same, which is why only a fraction still play.
The problem is compounding complaints. Effectively, each time the game is reduced in difficulty it gives rise to people that are interested in the game for the convenience. This new round of players then complains when something is just a touch too difficult, then the bar is lowered again and new players join at that new bar of difficulty. It's a cycle that continues till you end up with a mount collecting, achievement gathering crowd that doesn't like anything if it takes more than 5 minutes to obtain.
11/13/2018 07:44 PMPosted by Slappypappy
I agree and have said before I remember people making forums post about these things, about how 40 man raids were extreme, about how traveling was slow, leveling was painful, always being broke, class balance etc. Well we got fixes to all these things. Some people may look back and be like damn maybe the old way was the good way and that is fine you know the saying be careful what you wish for, but lets not pretend blizzard put these things in game out of the blue and no one asked for them, just about everyone asked for them.


11/13/2018 10:10 PMPosted by Sylphen
The problem is compounding complaints. Effectively, each time the game is reduced in difficulty it gives rise to people that are interested in the game for the convenience. This new round of players then complains when something is just a touch too difficult, then the bar is lowered again and new players join at that new bar of difficulty. It's a cycle that continues till you end up with a mount collecting, achievement gathering crowd that doesn't like anything if it takes more than 5 minutes to obtain.


The issue is one of knee jerk reaction. Ok movement is slow....boost it up a bit. Balance is off....change it a bit. What Blizz does is 2 things instead; massive change to structure of game when it is asked for and massive change to the game when it isn't asked for. Both instances are totally off the rails. Just watch, Blood Dk is OP right now, Blizz will nerf them into the ground....they do not need to do this when just a little tweak is required, but you will see changes like -20% to this and that baseline ability is now a talent and a proc is now 5% down from 35% and then Bloods will be on the forums crying WTH and they will be in the right.

I hate it when players are blamed for things in this game when it is the devs that are the one's doing the changes. Here is flight, ooooooo here is no flight, ok here is flight but here is also a massive pathfinder time gate. Small changes!!!!!! But all this is moot anyway. If you play the game right it is F2P and thanks to in game gold purchase the game is P2W....the hallmarks of a game that is ready for a fork to be stuck into it. AoC.
11/13/2018 03:54 PMPosted by Valeria
...to the community. That's how we got BfA."

Where did this line of thinking come from, because it's abject BS. I never wanted scaling, pruning, no flying, lfr, lfg, sharding, rng, or any of that.

Get absolutely rekt with that [Removed] nonsense.


The arrogance of assuming “I didn’t want this, therefore the community didn’t want this!”

People have been begging for QOL on the forums since day one. I remember dozens of threads in 2004 demanding free respecs, or complaining about how hard it was to find a group.
Yea, because the majority playerbase said "We want azerite armor, pathfinder, and we want to unlock new races via reputation!"
11/14/2018 04:55 AMPosted by Thèón
Yea, because the majority playerbase said "We want azerite armor, pathfinder, and we want to unlock new races via reputation!"


Don't forget pve rewards tied to warmode.

The arrogance of assuming “I didn’t want this, therefore the community didn’t want this!”

People have been begging for QOL on the forums since day one. I remember dozens of threads in 2004 demanding free respecs, or complaining about how hard it was to find a group.


Yep and a lot of changes that have been made have been things the community has wanted and have improved the game. The OP pointed out a lot that have not only been things the community did not ask for but the community has largely hated.

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