You are not prepared

Classic Discussion
...

And that's a small minority in BFA.
In vanilla everyone had to learn to do that and it starts with your first group quest/first dungeon.

Go to GD and read the TW thread. It's BC time walking and they can't even take down trash mobs cause no one is "CC". One poster there even suggested using fear to CC !


Even in Wrath you could already see the unlearning happening. In late Wrath I got queued into Sunwell Plateau with a group of low 70s in decent dungeon gear, and we got absolutely curb-stomped. Basic things like CC, doing line of sight pulls, etc were all forgotten quickly.


This happens every expansion just saying. Where a grp will form to do previous content thinking that because they are higher level with some better gear that its an easy beat. When players hit classic they will have a general idea of what to expect, im not saying its going to be a breeze of course people will enter with a retail mentality but dont think that many years of playing this game has made us dumb. Its not a new game. It will be much easier than you guys think.
11/14/2018 09:45 AMPosted by Nbksham
...

Even in Wrath you could already see the unlearning happening. In late Wrath I got queued into Sunwell Plateau with a group of low 70s in decent dungeon gear, and we got absolutely curb-stomped. Basic things like CC, doing line of sight pulls, etc were all forgotten quickly.


This happens every expansion just saying. Where a grp will form to do previous content thinking that because they are higher level with some better gear that its an easy beat. When players hit classic they will have a general idea of what to expect, im not saying its going to be a breeze of course people will enter with a retail mentality but dont think that many years of playing this game has made us dumb. Its not a new game. It will be much easier than you guys think.


Wrath heroic dungeons -- even the final ICC trio of dungeons -- could not hold a candle to dungeons like Sunwell Plateau or Shattered Halls at heroic difficulty. Cataclysm tried to correct for this, but even Cataroics were still easier than TBC heroics.

NES Mega Man is not a new game, and it will destroy most people. Being good at Super Metroid or DooM doesn't make you good at Mega Man, because they are drastically different games. This is basically how Vanilla and Retail are now.


This happens every expansion just saying. Where a grp will form to do previous content thinking that because they are higher level with some better gear that its an easy beat. When players hit classic they will have a general idea of what to expect, im not saying its going to be a breeze of course people will enter with a retail mentality but dont think that many years of playing this game has made us dumb. Its not a new game. It will be much easier than you guys think.


No, TW scaled them all down and the major complaint in that thread was players not using CC/interrupts.

BC is not that far removed from vanilla and cc'ing on trash was an important piece of running dungeons. There was no such thing as "round them up and aoe them down".
11/14/2018 10:06 AMPosted by Fyedora
Wrath heroic dungeons -- even the final ICC trio of dungeons -- could not hold a candle to dungeons like Sunwell Plateau or Shattered Halls at heroic difficulty. Cataclysm tried to correct for this, but even Cataroics were still easier than TBC heroics.
I wish I had been around for TBC since the beginning. I began in TBC, but it was just 5-6 months away from WotLK. Still managed to experience BT before it was nerfed though. And yeah, heroic dungeons in TBC were not a joke. I remember the countless wipes to Murmur in Shadow Labs. What was great about this time though was just how much the group would actually communicate and interact because there was this difficulty present.
11/14/2018 08:33 AMPosted by Jeebusjones
11/14/2018 08:27 AMPosted by Ristra
Vanilla required more patients. Many will walk away because of this.

think you mean patience :) I agree with this 100% people wont understand that they will need to LoS caster mobs, manage mana, watch pulls etc etc
Don’t condemn me for my smart phone typing skills!
11/14/2018 10:21 AMPosted by Ristra
11/14/2018 08:33 AMPosted by Jeebusjones
...
think you mean patience :) I agree with this 100% people wont understand that they will need to LoS caster mobs, manage mana, watch pulls etc etc
Don’t condemn me for my smart phone typing skills!


Well i mean vanilla might create more patients. Addiction to wow 2.0
11/14/2018 10:06 AMPosted by Fyedora

Wrath heroic dungeons -- even the final ICC trio of dungeons -- could not hold a candle to dungeons like Sunwell Plateau or Shattered Halls at heroic difficulty. Cataclysm tried to correct for this, but even Cataroics were still easier than TBC heroics.

[/quote]

Not to be nitpicky but sunwell plateau was the name of the raid (final one of bc), magisters terrace was the 5 man.
11/14/2018 10:25 AMPosted by Flåm
11/14/2018 10:06 AMPosted by Fyedora

Wrath heroic dungeons -- even the final ICC trio of dungeons -- could not hold a candle to dungeons like Sunwell Plateau or Shattered Halls at heroic difficulty. Cataclysm tried to correct for this, but even Cataroics were still easier than TBC heroics.


Not to be nitpicky but sunwell plateau was the name of the raid (final one of bc), magisters terrace was the 5 man.


You are absolutely correct -- brain fart X-D

Didn't Sunwell Plateau have one of the lowest participation rates of any raid in WoW? I read once that people in Sunwell Plateau gear were able to clear the Wrath version of Naxx :-/
If heroic raiding is easy for you and you can hold your own in mythic raids then congrats, you can heal or dps relatively well and classic raids will be easy for you. If you struggle in lfr or normal raids then you’re goingto struggle in classic.

The thing is I dont think anyone on the forums proclaiming how easy vanilla raids are are the ones struggling with lfr/normal raids. I also dont think these people realize how many people actually struggle with lfr and normal who in turn will struggle with vanilla raids
11/14/2018 10:30 AMPosted by Dazelle
If heroic raiding is easy for you and you can hold your own in mythic raids then congrats, you can heal or dps relatively well and classic raids will be easy for you. If you struggle in lfr or normal raids then you’re goingto struggle in classic.

The thing is I dont think anyone on the forums proclaiming how easy vanilla raids are are the ones struggling with lfr/normal raids. I also dont think these people realize how many people actually struggle with lfr and normal who in turn will struggle with vanilla raids
I expect that there will be some unique elements of difficulty that will appear once AQ and Naxx role around. Naxx specifically because it has some unique requirements to be able to clear it. But the difficulty of the content is only a partial interest of mine with Vanilla. What I honestly look forward to the most is the community aspect that has been lost in Retail. Its because of this that I can choose to play as much as I feel like rather than no-life it like many people would think. There is that element of challenge in what you commit to that feels just right.
11/14/2018 10:30 AMPosted by Dazelle
If heroic raiding is easy for you and you can hold your own in mythic raids then congrats, you can heal or dps relatively well and classic raids will be easy for you. If you struggle in lfr or normal raids then you’re goingto struggle in classic.

The thing is I dont think anyone on the forums proclaiming how easy vanilla raids are are the ones struggling with lfr/normal raids. I also dont think these people realize how many people actually struggle with lfr and normal who in turn will struggle with vanilla raids
I expect that there will be some unique elements of difficulty that will appear once AQ and Naxx role around. Naxx specifically because it has some unique requirements to be able to clear it. But the difficulty of the content is only a partial interest of mine with Vanilla. What I honestly look forward to the most is the community aspect that has been lost in Retail. Its because of this that I can choose to play as much as I feel like rather than no-life it like many people would think. There is that element of challenge in what you commit to that feels just right.


This. I had a run around on a PS a few days ago, met a Colombian guy in the starting zone played a few hours together and talked about classic really hit home what i missed about those days.
11/14/2018 09:45 AMPosted by Nbksham
...

Even in Wrath you could already see the unlearning happening. In late Wrath I got queued into Sunwell Plateau with a group of low 70s in decent dungeon gear, and we got absolutely curb-stomped. Basic things like CC, doing line of sight pulls, etc were all forgotten quickly.


This happens every expansion just saying. Where a grp will form to do previous content thinking that because they are higher level with some better gear that its an easy beat. When players hit classic they will have a general idea of what to expect, im not saying its going to be a breeze of course people will enter with a retail mentality but dont think that many years of playing this game has made us dumb. Its not a new game. It will be much easier than you guys think.


This. I remember a story from someone whose group had cleared sunwell a few times, about 30 of them decided to hit up Naxx40 and curbstomp it.

They wiped on the first trash pull because they had entirely the wrong mentality about the raid, and decided against pushing further.
I hate to say this, but i'm really looking forward to just sitting back and watching anyone who joined post - Cata, while leveling pull 3 mobs or more and realizing they are heading for a long corpse run back to their body because they didn't respect the mobs. (cept of course pally leveling tanks, then they may survive if all their cool downs were available).
- Leveling is a lot harder in classic.
- Class-depth was a lot deeper in classic as a whole. Dps/healing rotations were simpler, but most classes had a ton of unique utility unlike today that contributed to overall depth outside of just damage rotations.
- Raiding is wayyyy easier in classic.

That's about it. You can breeze through the game in BFA very easily and it's a very casual experience across the board when it comes to world content and pvp. When you get into raiding though, it's much easier in vanilla than in BFA, high-end raiding in retail is a genuinely difficult thing even today. In private servers right now you have people setting self-imposed challenges and speedruns because the raids by themselves are too easy.

The post you're citing was talking about raiding, I'm pretty sure you know that. Vanilla -was- easier in that regard. No one is going to start saying that leveling in classic is easier than retail. Obviously it's not, no one thinks that.
11/14/2018 01:15 PMPosted by Seyliah
- Leveling is a lot harder in classic.
- Class-depth was a lot deeper in classic as a whole. Dps/healing rotations were simpler, but most classes had a ton of unique utility unlike today that contributed to overall depth outside of just damage rotations.
- Raiding is wayyyy easier in classic.

That's about it. You can breeze through the game in BFA very easily and it's a very casual experience across the board when it comes to world content and pvp. When you get into raiding though, it's much easier in vanilla than in BFA, high-end raiding in retail is a genuinely difficult thing even today. In private servers right now you have people setting self-imposed challenges and speedruns because the raids by themselves are too easy.

The post you're citing was talking about raiding, I'm pretty sure you know that. Vanilla -was- easier in that regard. No one is going to start saying that leveling in classic is easier than retail. Obviously it's not, no one thinks that.


You are aware that the people that speed run raids on PS have been playing vanilla nonestop for 5+ years some significantly longer. Current BFA mythics would be the same for people that have cleared it hundreds if not thousands of times.
11/14/2018 07:14 AMPosted by Noodyrun
just saw a thread with 'classic is to easy for 2019 playerbase'

Shall enjoy the rude awakening for you unsuspecting souls. See you back in retail post lvl 10
Players kept getting wrecked in the demo zones despite them being early content and being nerfed compared to Vanilla. So there certainly is more than enough challenge for 2019 players.
Wait a minute here. Full stop. Don't care which is harder or easier at this point. It doesn't matter either but what does matter is your blantant use of a TBC meme.
We can't have this happening until classic TBC.
You could destroy the entire space time meme continuum in classic like this.
Only memes from Vanilla should be allowed in classic.

Leeeeeerooooy Jenkins......
11/14/2018 08:38 AMPosted by Zenshigen
11/14/2018 08:33 AMPosted by Jeebusjones
...
think you mean patience :) I agree with this 100% people wont understand that they will need to LoS caster mobs, manage mana, watch pulls etc etc


You already do all this in high lvl dungeons in retail, ask anyone doing 13s-15s.


And you do that in BASE all dungeons in Vanilla. It's pathetic that you need to ratchet up the difficulty in BFA's dungeons to "uber" before you can get to "vanilla" level of difficulty.

If we're talking pre-nerf Vanilla dungeons then BFA does not even come close.
Also.
11/14/2018 03:56 PMPosted by Melaned
...

Because you don't have to worry about that in retail, right? K.

Retail group quests are soloable.
Nough said.

But I am sadly a glutton for answering challenges. Too many people look at this in a single narrow line of focus, acting like difficulty is defined in the manner of which one sees, an aspect of difficulty rather than the entirety of what lies before them.

The difficulty of peeling a potato for instance. Without a tool one is left looking at the object and thinking of what it would require to peel said object with minimal output and in the easiest manner possible. One then gathers objects that could be used and then attempts to peel said potato without wasting any of the valuable inside to just chopping out corners. You are actively thinking "which knife works best? What angle and how far and deep should I cut at this point, what should I use to ease the gathering of peels as to not have to pick them off the floor".

Whereas to contain the necessary tool, a potato peeler in this case, one simply does the task that is required with less thought. The mechanics then change from trying to reduce wasted potato to dealing with the various curves and odd formations. It might seem more difficult as the potato's shape may be challenging but there is much less thought work put into it when one knows how to properly use the potato peeler.

For in this case the lacking of said potato peeler is like going into Vanilla. You have tools, they can be missused, but you actually have to think about what you are doing to get the best results and not waste valuable resource. Whereas the case with the proper tool you know what you are doing and how to do it, thought is less required here, the challenge comes in dealing with the circumstances ahead that you already see.

It's simply the concept of having to think and actually preview your surroundings. One who has this concept would find vanilla easy, but in doing so they are more likely to enjoy exercising such skills. I am using the term skill in the form of an ability to take an action rather than the amount of experience and ability one has mind you.

Vanilla's difficulty is not in a single ever sharpening blade but their broader use of said blade in how it is wielded.
Also.

11/13/2018 08:17 PMPosted by Melaned
The difficulty of the game is not simply defined by the ability to present one's skill in a set of acknowledging the mechanics of a fight and working around them alone. The difficulty of Vanilla WoW was presented in multiple formats from the social challenges to acquiring the aid you needed to liquid knowledge assets that forced the player to think of the scenario before them.

Simply defining difficulty in a single set aspect of the game like we see today in Current WoW is where people blind themselves into thinking that the mechanics behind Vanilla WoW make it less challenging. Whereas it is the unseen mechanics of the game being an open world that requires you to put in the effort to get things going that will be the true tests of skill. Not the simple skill of using a set of abilities in an order while following the mechanics of the opponent but the skills that make us human.

That is the true difficulty of Vanilla WoW.
(/thread)


Also it should be noted the argument is of the challenging of the concept of vanilla's difficulty with that of current WoW's. Not that either is complex and hard. Do not misunderstand that.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum