Saurfang the Traitor

General Discussion
Sylvanas doesn't have orc honor so any challenge would be met with a smirk and an ambush of some kind.

Saurfang has honor right now horde has none but the Alliance still has theirs...

It's Garrosh all over again except Garrosh wanted to make the world a better place
11/02/2018 07:29 PMPosted by Alsol
11/02/2018 07:09 PMPosted by Reesespieces
You know what Doomhammer did when he had a problem with his Warchief? Challenged him to Mak'gora and crushed his skull. He didn't moan and complain to Lothar and Llane.


Let's not forget Cairne stood up to Garrosh, too. The fact he died was just that Grimtotem's fault.

If you got a problem with your warchief, you challenge him or her in the face. You don't conspire with the Alliance.

Like Vol'Jin?
Some of you are missing the point. The point isn't whether or not she would have to accept the duel. The point isn't whether or not he would win. The point is he is supposed to be the embodiment of the real horde and their tradition is that if you have a problem with leadership, you challenge them for the position. You don't spare your enemies hoping they will take care of the problem for you. This is why I am unhappy what they are doing with Saurfang. It's fitting they have assassins coming for him in game since the writers have already assassinated his character.
11/02/2018 08:05 PMPosted by Guccí
11/02/2018 07:29 PMPosted by Alsol
...

Let's not forget Cairne stood up to Garrosh, too. The fact he died was just that Grimtotem's fault.

If you got a problem with your warchief, you challenge him or her in the face. You don't conspire with the Alliance.

Like Vol'Jin?


The situation with Vol'jin was a little different. Him and his trolls were basically kicked out of the horde.
11/02/2018 08:12 PMPosted by Lunkel
Some of you are missing the point. The point isn't whether or not she would have to accept the duel. The point isn't whether or not he would win. The point is he is supposed to be the embodiment of the real horde and their tradition is that if you have a problem with leadership, you challenge them for the position.


Preach. Lok'tar.
11/02/2018 08:00 PMPosted by Alsol
11/02/2018 07:59 PMPosted by Wrizby
They were on the run from the alliance. Saurfang and Sylvanas had no time for mak'gora, a duel, in the losing battle for Lordaeron.


Plenty of time between Teldrassil and Lordaeron's fight. Mak'Gora's don't last that long.

She didn't use the blight that was deemed unethical to use between Teldrassil and Lordaeron, did she?
Sylvanas doesn't have orc honor so any challenge would be met with a smirk and an ambush of some kind.

Saurfang has honor right now horde has none but the Alliance still has theirs...


Your funny.

11/02/2018 08:00 PMPosted by Romisa
It's Garrosh all over again except Garrosh wanted to make the world a better place


I assume your meme'ing but in the event your not, the problem with Garrosh wasn't him wanting to annihilate the Alliance, it was him being a huge racist towards the HORDE races.
11/02/2018 08:12 PMPosted by Lunkel
You don't spare your enemies hoping they will take care of the problem for you.

Do you think Anduin was wrong for sparing Saurfang then?
11/02/2018 08:12 PMPosted by Lunkel
Some of you are missing the point. The point isn't whether or not she would have to accept the duel. The point isn't whether or not he would win. The point is he is supposed to be the embodiment of the real horde and their tradition is that if you have a problem with leadership, you challenge them for the position. You don't spare your enemies hoping they will take care of the problem for you. This is why I am unhappy what they are doing with Saurfang. It's fitting they have assassins coming for him in game since the writers have already assassinated his character.

You don't directly challenge a leader who you know will destroy you in some dishonorable way and then raise your corpse as a puppet. Orcish honor isn't actually suicidal, Saurfang's idiotic stunt the dawn before the battle notwithstanding.
11/02/2018 08:35 PMPosted by Wrizby
11/02/2018 08:12 PMPosted by Lunkel
You don't spare your enemies hoping they will take care of the problem for you.

Do you think Anduin was wrong for sparing Saurfang then?

Yes. Saurfang was still a major player in the War of the Thorns. He still lead the Horde through Ashenvale and Darkshore and killed Alliance. Gonna be great when this backfires on both of them.
11/02/2018 08:38 PMPosted by Lorash
11/02/2018 08:35 PMPosted by Wrizby
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Do you think Anduin was wrong for sparing Saurfang then?

Yes. Saurfang was still a major player in the War of the Thorns. He still lead the Horde through Ashenvale and Darkshore and killed Alliance. Gonna be great when this backfires on both of them.

I don't think it will backfire. I think at this rate the Horde will become the scourge.
all warchiefs are bound to obey a makgora, if they dont do it their followers (orcs, taurens and trolls) would see her as weak for leading the horde. Is not about your race but your job as leader of the HORDE in ORGRIMMAR.

She could refuse to the battle, but what image of her would all her followers (not the undead ones) as a warchief.
Sylvanas wouldn't lose anything from denying a Mak'gora. The undead certainly wouldn't care. The goblins wouldn't care. The nightborne wouldn't care. The blood elves likely wouldn't be bothered.

At most she loses some respect from the orcs, trolls, and tauren. She already makes it obvious how little she cares about them anyhow. And they're likely afraid to step up to a woman who Chernobyl'd her OWN CITY just to spite Anduin.
11/02/2018 08:43 PMPosted by Sanndy
all warchiefs are bound to obey a makgora, if they dont do it their followers (orcs, taurens and trolls) would see her as weak for leading the horde. Is not about your race but your job as leader of the HORDE in ORGRIMMAR.

She could refuse to the battle, but what image of her would all her followers (not the undead ones) as a warchief.

The story isn't over yet. What if Saurfang walks up to Sylvanas with Anduin and the Alliance and Saurfang then challenges her to Mak'gora? In front of both factions. That would be awesome
Cause at this point, from what we know, Sylvanas has no idea that Anduin took Saurfang prisoner.
11/02/2018 08:37 PMPosted by Rizlet
You don't directly challenge a leader who you know will destroy you in some dishonorable way and then raise your corpse as a puppet. Orcish honor isn't actually suicidal, Saurfang's idiotic stunt the dawn before the battle notwithstanding.


Except Saurfang has made it abundatly clear his honor > the Horde > his life.

Seriously all he had to do was throw down the gauntlet after Teldrassil with everyone around to see and if she does anything other than accept he wins as a maryr and even if she accepts he might could have won.
11/02/2018 08:16 PMPosted by Lunkel
11/02/2018 08:05 PMPosted by Guccí
...
Like Vol'Jin?


The situation with Vol'jin was a little different. Him and his trolls were basically kicked out of the horde.


He also didn't openly desire the Alliance's aid. He basically took a, "We don't need your help, but we also won't turn it away" approach. Which was technically the right way to go about it. We took Siege of Orgrimmar on the Horde-side back on our own, without the Alliance's involvement. Tyrande maybe helped a little bit at the gates, but as the Horde perspective of that Raid goes, their 'help' was nonexistent.
11/02/2018 08:51 PMPosted by Vynlordros
11/02/2018 08:37 PMPosted by Rizlet
You don't directly challenge a leader who you know will destroy you in some dishonorable way and then raise your corpse as a puppet. Orcish honor isn't actually suicidal, Saurfang's idiotic stunt the dawn before the battle notwithstanding.


Except Saurfang has made it abundatly clear his honor > the Horde > his life.

Seriously all he had to do was throw down the gauntlet after Teldrassil with everyone around to see and if she does anything other than accept he wins as a maryr and even if she accepts he might could have won.

Where is the honor that Sylvanas has?
11/02/2018 08:35 PMPosted by Wrizby
11/02/2018 08:12 PMPosted by Lunkel
You don't spare your enemies hoping they will take care of the problem for you.

Do you think Anduin was wrong for sparing Saurfang then?


No, only because they have different cultures. Stormwind has stockades for a reason. Are there any in Org?

11/02/2018 08:37 PMPosted by Rizlet
You don't directly challenge a leader who you know will destroy you in some dishonorable way and then raise your corpse as a puppet. Orcish honor isn't actually suicidal, Saurfang's idiotic stunt the dawn before the battle notwithstanding.


But I think that is a good example, along with his son doing a suicide charge at the Lich King, along with his brother doing a suicide charge at Sargeras, and when you do the mah'gar scenario there is yet another suicide charge. I'm sure I could find more examples if I dug around for them. Getting killed in battle is like the greatest honor you can achieve as an orc.

His speech to the player, no matter how dire things are, never forsake your honor.

With all that in mind, I think him being worried about being killed and raised as a puppet would be the last thing on his mind.
11/02/2018 08:12 PMPosted by Lunkel
Some of you are missing the point. The point isn't whether or not she would have to accept the duel. The point isn't whether or not he would win. The point is he is supposed to be the embodiment of the real horde and their tradition is that if you have a problem with leadership, you challenge them for the position. You don't spare your enemies hoping they will take care of the problem for you. This is why I am unhappy what they are doing with Saurfang. It's fitting they have assassins coming for him in game since the writers have already assassinated his character.


This. It has been repeated several times, by several posters, and always ignored. Saurfang is a traitor.

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