Reason(s) Why We Need Old Survival

Hunter
Survival 3.7% distribution, Beast Mastery 2.4%, Marksmanship .1%.

4 Hunters in top 100.
11/06/2018 05:06 AMPosted by Cognyack
Survival 3.7% distribution, Beast Mastery 2.4%, Marksmanship .1%.

4 Hunters in top 100.
Thanks.
SV was ahead in PvP representation in 7.0. It did not save the spec. There are also far, far fewer players involved in high-rated PvP than in raiding.

Setting up the class so that SV is the only viable PvP spec for Hunters is an extremely ineffective way to prop up the spec. It looks like that's what they are going for this time too.
Strangely enough, I was SV from WotLK till MoP (MM in TBC) and had stopped playing hunters entirely until this rework, when I decided "hey, melee ranged hybrid, it could be fun".

Sure, I liked old SV too, but that doesn't mean I can't also enjoy new SV.

I'm actually leveling 2 SV hunters at the same time now.
As a more progressed Survival hunter I'd like the ranged spec back. Maybe give it a option to work fully as a ranged spec in its current state. Then if I want to melee I can but if I want to ranged because we have too many melee in the group and I am forced by peer pressure of group to switch to ranged or sit out of the fight I can toggle a talent that allows me to do all the same damage but as a ranged class.
11/06/2018 05:18 AMPosted by Triggurs
Sure, I liked old SV too, but that doesn't mean I can't also enjoy new SV.


13 melee DPS.
9 caster DPS.
2 ranged weapon specializations.

Problem being there are only 2 options left for players who once made up the most popular class (for a decade, by 3%+ over #2). Those 2 options are basically on extreme ends of both the game play and fantasy spectrum. Those 2 options flip flop from bad to worse good to mediocre with each expansion since Blizzard removed the middle ground.

Ion himself admits to knowing that Hunter players play the class/self select for the ranged shooter gameplay. Melee loving players have 12 other specializations to choose from and most of those in hybrid classes with options besides just DPS.

Beast Mastery is barely ranged anymore, but hey, it's mobile. It's most damaging player attack outside of a talent is Auto Shot. It's all commanding and buffing a minion with really bad animations and spell effects.

Marksmanship went from spray and pray back to sniper but in a way that really only feels good in solo open world play when you get that 1 shot kill. The rest requires too much setup for lackluster damage.

When we had 3 ranged specs the middle ground allowed for more choice when tuning didn't favor your favorite specialization.

With only 2 options everyone is shoehorned into the "best" regardless of whether they like the fantasy or mechanics.
11/06/2018 05:41 AMPosted by Cognyack
11/06/2018 05:18 AMPosted by Triggurs
Sure, I liked old SV too, but that doesn't mean I can't also enjoy new SV.


13 melee DPS.
9 caster DPS.
2 ranged weapon specializations.

Problem being there are only 2 options left for players who once made up the most popular class (for a decade, by 3%+ over #2). Those 2 options are basically on extreme ends of both the game play and fantasy spectrum. Those 2 options flip flop from bad to worse good to mediocre with each expansion since Blizzard removed the middle ground.

Ion himself admits to knowing that Hunter players play the class/self select for the ranged shooter gameplay. Melee loving players have 12 other specializations to choose from and most of those in hybrid classes with options besides just DPS.

Beast Mastery is barely ranged anymore, but hey, it's mobile. It's most damaging player attack outside of a talent is Auto Shot. It's all commanding and buffing a minion with really bad animations and spell effects.

Marksmanship went from spray and pray back to sniper but in a way that really only feels good in solo open world play when you get that 1 shot kill. The rest requires too much setup for lackluster damage.

When we had 3 ranged specs the middle ground allowed for more choice when tuning didn't favor your favorite specialization.

With only 2 options everyone is shoehorned into the "best" regardless of whether they like the fantasy or mechanics.
Still seems like it's a bit of a stretch though. People are playing SV more and more now. It's the PvP Spec when not considered the oddball. It has its niche, now it's time to build on that.
11/06/2018 08:14 AMPosted by Natesanders
11/06/2018 05:41 AMPosted by Cognyack
...

13 melee DPS.
9 caster DPS.
2 ranged weapon specializations.

Problem being there are only 2 options left for players who once made up the most popular class (for a decade, by 3%+ over #2). Those 2 options are basically on extreme ends of both the game play and fantasy spectrum. Those 2 options flip flop from bad to worse good to mediocre with each expansion since Blizzard removed the middle ground.

Ion himself admits to knowing that Hunter players play the class/self select for the ranged shooter gameplay. Melee loving players have 12 other specializations to choose from and most of those in hybrid classes with options besides just DPS.

Beast Mastery is barely ranged anymore, but hey, it's mobile. It's most damaging player attack outside of a talent is Auto Shot. It's all commanding and buffing a minion with really bad animations and spell effects.

Marksmanship went from spray and pray back to sniper but in a way that really only feels good in solo open world play when you get that 1 shot kill. The rest requires too much setup for lackluster damage.

When we had 3 ranged specs the middle ground allowed for more choice when tuning didn't favor your favorite specialization.

With only 2 options everyone is shoehorned into the "best" regardless of whether they like the fantasy or mechanics.
Still seems like it's a bit of a stretch though. People are playing SV more and more now. It's the PvP Spec when not considered the oddball. It has its niche, now it's time to build on that.

It has been artificially transformed into THE PvP spec however. The kit doesn't offer anything fundamentally different from BM regarding PvP utility, but they slapped a hilarious 18% damage penalty on BM to make it unviable in high level PvP. SV is only the PvP spec because they artificially made the other two specs completely worthless.
I honestly think it would have made sense for Blizzard to use this implementation of survival as the rework to outlaw rogue... Just replace the pet abilities with something else that fits whatever theme they are going for (vegabond for example) would feel more like a Witcher.

SV should stay ranged and focus on rapid Quick hits and dots vs slower big hits coming from MM.
11/06/2018 08:24 AMPosted by Orangesilk
but they slapped a hilarious 18% damage penalty on BM to make it unviable in high level PvP.


Blizzard rides the QQ train that says Beast Mastery is "too simple" and "all AI damage" and therefore can't be competitive in PvP even when those 2 things aren't true. Which is funny (sad, not haha) because they redesigned nearly all of the complexity and player damage out of the spec in Legion and just dribbled a little bit back in BFA.
11/06/2018 08:24 AMPosted by Orangesilk
11/06/2018 08:14 AMPosted by Natesanders
...Still seems like it's a bit of a stretch though. People are playing SV more and more now. It's the PvP Spec when not considered the oddball. It has its niche, now it's time to build on that.

It has been artificially transformed into THE PvP spec however. The kit doesn't offer anything fundamentally different from BM regarding PvP utility, but they slapped a hilarious 18% damage penalty on BM to make it unviable in high level PvP. SV is only the PvP spec because they artificially made the other two specs completely worthless.
The BM Nerf did nothing to SV in PvP.
11/06/2018 03:23 AMPosted by Cognyack
11/04/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Rosenoa
People who like melee sv is way more then a small group. It more like 50%. Sv also one of the best dps in raid right now.


?????

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#difficulty=4

Heroic parses which have the largest numbers overall of the 3 real difficulties.

46,237 Survival parses.
406,807 Beast Mastery parses.
29,570 Marksmanship parses.

9.6% of all Hunter parses are Survival players.
84.3% of all Hunter parses are Beast Mastery players.

Please prove your 50% claim.

Also: Survival is 5th from last in total number of parses ahead of: Demonolgy, Subtlety, Feral, and Marksmanship. (4th from the bottom on Mythic difficulty.)

Again, where are you getting 50%?

World of Warcraft Hunter players overwhelmingly choose to be a) Ranged and b) Mobile.


Hi. I never said 50% played Sv. I said 50% LIKED sv. Learn to read. I've talk to people who likes melee sv but wish old sv was still a thing. I'm sorry old sv loss their spec. That why I all for a 4th spec that like old sv. As long as melee sv stays.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#difficulty=4
The link you post, sv is in top 3 on Heroic Uldir

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19
This link I'm posting is for Mythic Uldir and Sv is 6th.

Both spots are good and if I look at Normal and LFR. SV still looks good.

Yes some people like range and mobile. Some people like melee and mobile that not a warrior or a rouge.
11/06/2018 12:38 PMPosted by Rosenoa
11/06/2018 03:23 AMPosted by Cognyack
...

?????

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#difficulty=4

Heroic parses which have the largest numbers overall of the 3 real difficulties.

46,237 Survival parses.
406,807 Beast Mastery parses.
29,570 Marksmanship parses.

9.6% of all Hunter parses are Survival players.
84.3% of all Hunter parses are Beast Mastery players.

Please prove your 50% claim.

Also: Survival is 5th from last in total number of parses ahead of: Demonolgy, Subtlety, Feral, and Marksmanship. (4th from the bottom on Mythic difficulty.)

Again, where are you getting 50%?

World of Warcraft Hunter players overwhelmingly choose to be a) Ranged and b) Mobile.


Hi. I never said 50% played Sv. I said 50% LIKED sv.


hahahah. all these threads are such a joke.
11/03/2018 05:55 AMPosted by Viper
I would never have played the class unless survival existed in its current state. One of the most enjoyable class variations blizz has ever created.


This.

Old survival was absolute trash and prior to this iteration, I've stuck with BM. What survival is now is what I feel BM should've been.

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