Blizzard lfr is a que so why not m0?

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11/12/2018 03:56 AMPosted by Kirela
11/12/2018 03:42 AMPosted by Yusegoo
...

Several pages of post and no one has countered this.


Remember at the end of legion when people were kicking and screaming about the jerk players coming into heroic dungeons and ruining their fun because they were there to get essences? How often do people complain about getting kicked and having a debuff?

You don't want to toss everyone together randomly like that, trust me. People will take the path of least resistance (meaning no one will bother to check the group creation tool to make groups like now) but they aren't going to waste time with people who aren't on their level either, or give a person a chance to stop and figure out why that trash mob that was so easy in heroic can now kill them and everyone is going to be mad at everyone else so the next logical step would be...

To nerf M0. Which not only takes away even more challenge in the game, but feeds even more gear to people which sounds good on paper, sure, but it's erroding the point of games in my opinion.


Queuable content does not equal nerfed. As it has been pointed out several times, old heroics were more challenging when they were relevant, and people still did them. If you don't like the idea of doing m0 with a completely random group, then don't. If m0 becomes queuable but you find it to be too hard then do more heroics first.

I know the community likes to think random players to be brain dead, yet in WoWs past and virtually every other online video game they do fine
11/10/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Sinelus
Casuals ignore these mechanics


I would word this different. Being casual does not automatically mean you're incompetent or incapable.
11/12/2018 03:42 AMPosted by Yusegoo
11/11/2018 05:15 PMPosted by Yusegoo
The arguments against it are so lame.

Argument 1) It would be too hard.
Counter 1) Heroics were the old hardmode and were queue-able when they were--people still did them.

Argument 2)
People would wipe over and over and it would just be painful to do,
Counter 2) Then don't do them. Others will. Feel free to continue to PuG using your own means.


Several pages of post and no one has countered this.


CT 1; heroics being difficult while being queable didn't last, they were nerfed into the ground because to many people just weren't good enough, and qued anyway, resulting in many wipes.

If mythics go this road, and be queable, they would run into the same problem as heroics, to difficult, nerfed into the ground, and the learning curve gap gets bigger, and a new difficulty needs made to help soften it.

CT:2 honestly I feel like my first point addressed this aswell.
11/12/2018 04:05 AMPosted by Yusegoo
11/12/2018 03:56 AMPosted by Kirela
...

Remember at the end of legion when people were kicking and screaming about the jerk players coming into heroic dungeons and ruining their fun because they were there to get essences? How often do people complain about getting kicked and having a debuff?

You don't want to toss everyone together randomly like that, trust me. People will take the path of least resistance (meaning no one will bother to check the group creation tool to make groups like now) but they aren't going to waste time with people who aren't on their level either, or give a person a chance to stop and figure out why that trash mob that was so easy in heroic can now kill them and everyone is going to be mad at everyone else so the next logical step would be...

To nerf M0. Which not only takes away even more challenge in the game, but feeds even more gear to people which sounds good on paper, sure, but it's erroding the point of games in my opinion.


Queuable content does not equal nerfed. As it has been pointed out several times, old heroics were more challenging when they were relevant, and people still did them. If you don't like the idea of doing m0 with a completely random group, then don't. If m0 becomes queuable but you find it to be too hard then do more heroics first.

I know the community likes to think random players to be brain dead, yet in WoWs past and virtually every other online video game they do fine


You are ignoring my first two points about the numerous complaints about heroic dungeons last expansion and the kicking we still see today. Sure, back in the day maybe people were more patient I guess (doubtful) but players today seem to have very little patience.

If they put it in a queue and it became like heroics are now (people running around like chickens with their heads cut off) and no one was bothering to pug I guess I would just not have to do them.

And random players are sometimes "okay", but I find most of the time they aren't. Don't thrust your opinion on anyone like it's fact.
11/12/2018 04:05 AMPosted by Yusegoo
11/12/2018 03:56 AMPosted by Kirela
...

Remember at the end of legion when people were kicking and screaming about the jerk players coming into heroic dungeons and ruining their fun because they were there to get essences? How often do people complain about getting kicked and having a debuff?

You don't want to toss everyone together randomly like that, trust me. People will take the path of least resistance (meaning no one will bother to check the group creation tool to make groups like now) but they aren't going to waste time with people who aren't on their level either, or give a person a chance to stop and figure out why that trash mob that was so easy in heroic can now kill them and everyone is going to be mad at everyone else so the next logical step would be...

To nerf M0. Which not only takes away even more challenge in the game, but feeds even more gear to people which sounds good on paper, sure, but it's erroding the point of games in my opinion.


Queuable content does not equal nerfed. As it has been pointed out several times, old heroics were more challenging when they were relevant, and people still did them. If you don't like the idea of doing m0 with a completely random group, then don't. If m0 becomes queuable but you find it to be too hard then do more heroics first.

I know the community likes to think random players to be brain dead, yet in WoWs past and virtually every other online video game they do fine


They were challenging for a week during cata, then the outrage literally nerfed them into the ground.

The wotlk dungeons outside of halls of reflection were braindead.

Cata came, mechanically difficulty dungeons arrive with actual punishment.

Uproar and heavy handed nerfs.

Zul gurub and zul aman revamp.

Released strong, within a week, nerfed into the ground.

Twilight dungeons, released braindead easy.

The playerbase needs a learning curve, and it starts at M0, the moment it goes Queable, it will be nerfed, we lose an intreduction into building your own group, and a learning gap is widened.

People then gear up, only to try and move into their next stage of gearing, only to find they are completely incapable of doing Mythic keys, or raids, because the gear they have, has completely !@#$ed their progression as a player.
What I like about Mythic +0: It brings back an old-style feel to dungeons. You have to seek out and screen players for your group, go to the entrance, learn boss fights, wipe, and kill. I find this more fulfilling than queuing for heroic 5-mans. There is also no pressure and people are much more relaxed.
11/12/2018 04:18 AMPosted by Revlol
11/12/2018 04:05 AMPosted by Yusegoo
...

Queuable content does not equal nerfed. As it has been pointed out several times, old heroics were more challenging when they were relevant, and people still did them. If you don't like the idea of doing m0 with a completely random group, then don't. If m0 becomes queuable but you find it to be too hard then do more heroics first.

I know the community likes to think random players to be brain dead, yet in WoWs past and virtually every other online video game they do fine


They were challenging for a week during cata, then the outrage literally nerfed them into the ground.

The wotlk dungeons outside of halls of reflection were braindead.

Cata came, mechanically difficulty dungeons arrive with actual punishment.

Uproar and heavy handed nerfs.

Zul gurub and zul aman revamp.

Released strong, within a week, nerfed into the ground.

Twilight dungeons, released braindead easy.

The playerbase needs a learning curve, and it starts at M0, the moment it goes Queable, it will be nerfed, we lose an intreduction into building your own group, and a learning gap is widened.

People then gear up, only to try and move into their next stage of gearing, only to find they are completely incapable of doing Mythic keys, or raids, because the gear they have, has completely !@#$ed their progression as a player.
pretty much this.
Because LFR/LFG are tuned with knowing that a random groups might not be ideal since players can't choose whose in their group. Mythic is tuned thinking that the group will be more or less ideal since players can choose whose in the group.
11/11/2018 09:45 PMPosted by Cyouskin
And nerfing M0 indirectly nerfs M+ content -- this isn't debatable.


The need to nerf M0 IS debatable. It does not need to happen!

People claimed cata heroics were too hard. People here say cata heroics are harder than M0. Yet I finished my heroic dungeon acheivements 100% through queing.

One reason people claimed cata heroic were too hard was because that level of difficulty was the starting point. Here you M0 beyond heroics, where you could require a level of experience or achievement in heroics before giving you the ability to queue.

The player that wants to queue for M0 is doing so because they have completed/have experience in the dungeon, and because they accept, its a difficulty above heroic. There is no need to nerf M0 nor restrict accessibility to it via a queue!
Why are normal dungeons today even a thing. Slide heroic dungeons down to replace normal, slide M0 down to replace heroic. Add both of these difficulties to the LFG queue and leave M+ as it is right now.
just make a group. it really ain't that hard. and m0 is a joke to, its still so easy even when people first start doing them. make a damn group and learn how to interrupt and your good to go since blizz likes making interrupting the hardest thing in m0.
I think it is fine the way it is. Mythic dungeons are there to set it apart from the queue content. It's a higher level of difficulty that requires more effort. People want it in queue for convenience, part of the effort for mythic dungeons is getting a group together. Make the effort. My wife has done a few mythic dungeons. Out of curiously I queued for a random heroic at the same time she started looking for a group. No joke, she found a group and started while I was still waiting in queue. I think it took her about 5 or 6 minutes on average to find groups for mythic 0.

edit: to clarify she was dps when looking for a group.
As long as there was a system in place that gauges players skill as in avoiding excessive damage, does enough damage, based of all current dungeons done in heroic etc.. Then sure.
11/12/2018 05:53 AMPosted by Naugi
The need to nerf M0 IS debatable. It does not need to happen!


Whether it needs to or not isn't what is under debate. It's the fact that history shows us it *WILL* be nerfed.
The point of making Mythics not queue-able is to get people back out in the world more. It helps keep areas alive, appeals to the social aspect of the game, and perhaps has other benefits.
Queueable Progression:
> Normals > Heroics > LFR

Non-Queuable Progression
> Mythic 0's > Mythic +'s > Normal Raid > Heroic Raid > Mythic Raid
11/12/2018 06:50 AMPosted by Meritha
11/12/2018 05:53 AMPosted by Naugi
The need to nerf M0 IS debatable. It does not need to happen!


Whether it needs to or not isn't what is under debate. It's the fact that history shows us it *WILL* be nerfed.


people's basis for saying that is from many years ago.

Then (cata) - no other gearing options to assist with the level of difficulty once you hit max level.

Now - heroic dungeon gear if you wanted. If you want better gear, then world quests and war fronts. That's plenty to take on M0. Look at my gear. Is it so poor that it not yet ready for M0?

the person above you says:

11/12/2018 06:12 AMPosted by Kissmytotems
and m0 is a joke to,


So no need for nerf then!
guys we are talking about m0 here not m+.people who are raiding are beyond m0 dungeons right now and guild thats worth anything thats raiding is well past it.

besides most people are carried now or days through m+ or pay for runs to get the wow credit score up.
11/12/2018 07:17 AMPosted by Kelgar
guys we are talking about m0 here not m+.people who are raiding are beyond m0 dungeons right now and guild thats worth anything thats raiding is well past it.

besides most people are carried now or days through m+ or pay for runs to get the wow credit score up.


Yes, but that wasn't the way it was the first week of the expansion, and no I still don't want to do M0 with random people.

When the new dungeon(s) come out they won't be as easy either.
11/12/2018 07:17 AMPosted by Kelgar
guys we are talking about m0 here not m+.people who are raiding are beyond m0 dungeons right now and guild thats worth anything thats raiding is well past it.

besides most people are carried now or days through m+ or pay for runs to get the wow credit score up.

That's true it is mythic 0, but you have to separate it at some point. It's not my call but if mythic 0 is changed then it will be "but mythic 1 is not so bad it should be in a queue." and so on and so forth. It's not so hard to look or make a group, people don't even have to recruit from city or zone chat. If I have a vote it would be to leave it as it is. Got to start somewhere might as well jump in at 0.

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