Blizzard lfr is a que so why not m0?

General Discussion
Prev 1 16 17 18 26 Next
Honestly M0 is basically the heroic of the past. There is little difference between the both, the exception being you cannot use the LFG tool. Don’t need both IMO.
11/12/2018 05:53 AMPosted by Naugi
11/11/2018 09:45 PMPosted by Cyouskin
And nerfing M0 indirectly nerfs M+ content -- this isn't debatable.


The need to nerf M0 IS debatable. It does not need to happen!

People claimed cata heroics were too hard. People here say cata heroics are harder than M0. Yet I finished my heroic dungeon acheivements 100% through queing.


The difficulty of cata heroics depend on when you did them, honestly.

Certainly before priest regen hotfixes, having a priest in your random cata heroic was difficult. Then after that, you had the sweeping nerfs to cata heroics, which basically made them trivial.
11/12/2018 07:25 AMPosted by Kirela
11/12/2018 07:17 AMPosted by Kelgar
guys we are talking about m0 here not m+.people who are raiding are beyond m0 dungeons right now and guild thats worth anything thats raiding is well past it.

besides most people are carried now or days through m+ or pay for runs to get the wow credit score up.


Yes, but that wasn't the way it was the first week of the expansion, and no I still don't want to do M0 with random people.

When the new dungeon(s) come out they won't be as easy either.


i want people to advance their chrs and you want to keep them down from a dungeon that no one runs anymore.

also who said you still cant make your own group for mythic 0?
11/12/2018 07:57 AMPosted by Vicktoria
Honestly M0 is basically the heroic of the past. There is little difference between the both, the exception being you cannot use the LFG tool. Don’t need both IMO.


The problem is this, if you put it M0 into LFD, a few things are going to happen.
1. People will start asking it to be nerfed (people in this thread have already suggested that it be nerfed when it goes LFD). That can not happen cause it will effect M+ since M0 is the BASELINE for M+.
2. People will not learn mechanics and just tunnel. It happened in Heroics (as a healer that got sick of this, its annoying). It happens in LFR to (do you guys just not understand how MOTHER works or Zul.)
3. "Give a inch, they will take a mile" Just cause its easy does not mean it needs a que system. What is stopping the argument for low M+ keys from being asked be queable.

Im not trying to be a elitist (im a casual), but I just dont think everything needs a que system. Socialize, make friends and join a guild.
11/12/2018 08:07 AMPosted by Kelgar


i want people to advance their chrs and you want to keep them down from a dungeon that no one runs anymore.

also who said you still cant make your own group for mythic 0?


I think more people would be comfortable with things moving to queue content if it wasn't for the explicit design intent for queue groups by and large being successful and the history of such content in cataclysm, where it basically got nerfed to the ground to make coordination irrelevant.

I don't think too many people care about keeping people down, they care about the content being nerfed. You can say all you want that it won't happen, but the best evidence we have strongly suggests it will.

The fact that you can continue to make groups manually isn't really relevant.
11/12/2018 04:05 AMPosted by Yusegoo
Queuable content does not equal nerfed. As it has been pointed out several times, old heroics were more challenging when they were relevant, and people still did them. If you don't like the idea of doing m0 with a completely random group, then don't. If m0 becomes queuable but you find it to be too hard then do more heroics first.
If you're referring to Cata heroics as the "challenging old heroics" then I'd like to point out that they were nerfed. Heavily. After massive forum outcry.

History has proven that queueable content needs to be completeable by the lowest common denominator. If people (good players that do mechanics) are being held back, then yes, there's going to be an outcry to nerf the content. I couldn't care less if M0 goes to a queue, I do care though if it gets nerfed from complaints that it's too hard. Especially when it's not actually hard, it's artificially hard because people don't CC and follow mechanics.
11/12/2018 08:12 AMPosted by Mescyn
I think more people would be comfortable with things moving to queue content if it wasn't for the explicit design intent for queue groups by and large being successful and the history of such content in cataclysm, where it basically got nerfed to the ground to make coordination irrelevant.
Well said.
If you're referring to Cata heroics as the "challenging old heroics" then I'd like to point out that they were nerfed. Heavily. After massive forum outcry.

History has proven that queueable content needs to be completeable by the lowest common denominator. If people (good players that do mechanics) are being held back, then yes, there's going to be an outcry to nerf the content. I couldn't care less if M0 goes to a queue, I do care though if it gets nerfed from complaints that it's too hard (especially when it's not actually hard, it's artificially hard because people don't CC and follow mechanics).

WOTLK babied most players into a comfort zone.
CATA told them to get good.

CATA then got nerfed into the ground because players, for the most part, hadn't used CC in dungeons in 2 years. They still used their expensive heals and OOM'd in 30sec. They wouldn't wait for the patrol to move away. They wouldn't kick the mob that healed everything.

Then CATA was a joke. And we don't want M+ to be a joke. M0 and M+ isn't for players who refuse to learn dungeon mechanics. If social anxiety or the fear of rejection is getting to you, just queue up in Group Finder and join some group. If there are no groups or the DPS slots are full, just make your own group. I promise anyone with those difficulties -- you're seriously overthinking it.
11/10/2018 12:47 PMPosted by Kelgar
let players advance more by making m0 a que.


Disclaimer: I only agree with this because I have alts I want to gear fast for M+/Raids. I know a lot of other people feel the same way as I do, but this of course would have repercussions as stated in above posts through out the thread. Good and the bad.

11/12/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Cyouskin
M0 and M+ isn't for players who refuse to learn dungeon mechanics.
But it would be a great catch up mechanic for alts of the people who know what they're doing. Good and the bad.
11/12/2018 08:12 AMPosted by Mescyn
I don't think too many people care about keeping people down, they care about the content being nerfed


its mythic 0 not mythic + i can spam warfronts all day and get 340+ and the weekly quest for a chance at 395 titanforged gear.the next war front will have higher lvl gear and the next lfr will be higher lvl gear in 8.1.

there is no reason m0 shouldnt be a que.
11/12/2018 08:31 AMPosted by Kelgar
11/12/2018 08:12 AMPosted by Mescyn
I don't think too many people care about keeping people down, they care about the content being nerfed


its mythic 0 not mythic + i can spam warfronts all day and get 340+ and the weekly quest for a chance at 395 titanforged gear.the next war front will have higher lvl gear and the next lfr will be higher lvl gear in 8.1.

there is no reason m0 shouldnt be a que.


There are so many problems that can potentally happen if its queable
1. Will it turn out to be hard for Pugs and have a outcry for nerfs?
2. What will the minimum ilvl be set to?
3. Would you still need rep to do Kingss rest and seige
4. Will lockouts not matter anymore?

Those are just some questions, but there is a lot of issues with this that have been stated already.
11/12/2018 08:25 AMPosted by Sendes
But it would be a great catch up mechanic for alts of the people who know what they're doing. Good and the bad.

I disagree.

These players will be doing normal/heroic alt runs and weekly caches for the most part. 340 gear is very easy to come across. Knocking out a +6, collecting first-time Warfront caches are far more time efficient. Once they get their Emissary caches to 355, it's pointless to them. They'll be swimming in 370 gear within a month for practically no effort.

There's no point in fishing for Titanforge procs when you can get 355 or 370 gear for next to nothing.
11/10/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Sinelus
Because Mythic has mechanics that will kill you if you don't pay attention. Casuals ignore these mechanics and would wipe you. Heroic to Mythic is a huge step up and needs teamwork to some extent.


No, mythic0 is not that much harder than heroic. Theres just a timer. You go to the LFG tool and just look at the insane requirements people put in their groups description and then tell me that mythic0 is in any way a system that is new player friendly. mythic0 is a pathway to the content that Blizz is focusing most of its time, and gating entrance to it being guarded by elite players is a crime in of itself.

Mythic0 should be on the Que, because it will bring so many more players up into the mythic+ key system as they gain the skills in mythic0, so they can rise to that next level. It will be their stone after, and im sure they will not want to waste it and miss out on the loot it brings with it.
11/12/2018 08:45 AMPosted by Blitzkareeg
mythic0 is not that much harder than heroic. Theres just a timer


No timer in base mythic bud.
M0 isn't for "elitists" or super high end difficult content. It might be like that for the first bit of an expansion (because m+ and raids aren't available yet) but after that, the "elitists" go do m+ and raid and don't/wont bother with them.

M0 is essentially as difficult as heroic was when that was the top difficulty for a dungeon. It just has a different name now


Then Mythic0 should be added to the Que.

m0 drops 340 gear, as does the warfront. So how are you advancing if you're doing content that drops the exact same item level? If you want to advance/progress there is: Normal, Heroic,mythic difficulty raids. There is also m+ of varying levels. You choosing to not partake in content that drops better gear is on you.


To start, the warfronts are like so far and few between when it comes to getting gear, it takes weeks to get in. Also, raids take many more players to get into. Also we are trying to partake in higher levels of mythic dungeons, but again, getting shut out by the gate keepers. You cant get better, and do higher content if you can not get your foot in the door, because people have a chair jammed against it barring entry.
11/12/2018 08:45 AMPosted by Blitzkareeg
No, mythic0 is not that much harder than heroic. Theres just a timer.

There's no timer in Mythic 0.

Normal -- Learn the basics of your role in the group. (Includes knowing that you should be using your utility.)
Heroic -- Learn how the mechanics really work. (This is your practice stage.)
Mythic -- Execute your role and execute the mechanics.

This holds true for Raids too.
11/11/2018 04:48 PMPosted by Haavi

Please explain to me how an option causes problems?

For sake of an argument, if you put all Dungeon and raid content in the LFG/LFR feature what issue does that cause?

People who hate LFG/LFR won't use and would continue do create their manual groups *exactly* as they do today. People who want the convenience of a queue have that for the content.

Now to the playerbase. If someone queues for Mythic Raiding, and that person complains it is too hard or overturned, why would you listen to that person? If you cant do Mythic content go back and do heroic, or hell, LFR. At some point you have to draw a line. To this day I haven't heard any reasoning that makes sense as to why everything can't be queable (outside of it not being technically probable).

Blizzard's problem is trying to please all aspects of the playerbase without looking at the logic of why they are complaining. Some complaints deserve to go unheard.

You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you cant please all of the people all of the time.

Personally my issue of adding queues to everything is that it splits the player base.
As you said people who aren't happy with LFG can still use the manual grouping systems, however this is limiting because now their pool of potential players is "the number of current players searching" - "the number of players using the LFG tool".

What happens if all the tanks or healers are using one system, and all of the dps are using another? Formation of groups will be a lot slower with a split system.

In regard to the content difficulty. I don't think your situation works out. In a perfect world someone would do the content and realise it was too difficult for them and decide "I need to get gear and work up to that". Which I agree would make for a fine system.

However, we are dealing with flawed human beings who have a natural tendency to be blinkered when it comes to their own inadequacies. We will fail, we will fail, and we will continue to find outlets for our blame as to why it was not us who was responsible for causing the failure.
Today's content is difficult enough for a random group of players to get together and complete. Just do an LFR G'huun and have a look at the player base you are working with. A lot of people aren't willing to improve, especially if the content is something they can just jump into.
They will just continue to throw themselves at the wall until outside circumstances cause them to be carried through the difficulty.


Well if it limits the pool for pre-made then that's saying the community wants queuing. If it is as bad as it's made out to be no one would use it. Bottom line it's a convenience tool for those with limited time looking to do content.

When I LFD/LFR I'm going in understanding this is a roll of the dice and I may not complete the content. But having used it extensively since I joined in 2012 I've completed way more queues than I had fail.

Also dont conflate the tool (or option) with the playerbase. Some people have the idea that just because you can queue they expect to either steamroll or complete the content, which is silly considering you are literally running a dungeon with complete random strangers. To your point if I was queuing and say it was taking 2 hours to get tank or healer I wouldn't complain about the tool. I would probably be forced to use pre made because that's where the experience pushed me. Notice that is outside of the tool being an option.

It's common sense that the failure will increase because you are playing with randoms. But that's the side effect you have to accept for a convenient queue. You dont like continual fails in LFR, create your own group to up your chances.

The tool to queue does not equate to successful run, it only provides means for people to get into the instance which is all I'm asking for. Let ME decide if I like the results or not.[i][/i]
11/12/2018 08:45 AMPosted by Blitzkareeg
No, mythic0 is not that much harder than heroic.
Yes, actually, it is harder. I'm not saying it's Mythic raid vs. Normal raid different, but there are mechanics that NEED to be followed and there are mobs that should be CC'd.
11/12/2018 08:45 AMPosted by Blitzkareeg
Mythic0 should be on the Que, because it will bring so many more players up into the mythic+ key system as they gain the skills in mythic0, so they can rise to that next level.
Really? Because that worked out so well with LFR helping people rise to that next level of formal raiding.

For that matter, how would you even know? Unless the forums are already going wonky, you've never done a heroic or mythic dungeon this expansion. Get some experience before you start making judgments on the difficulty of different levels of dungeons.
11/12/2018 08:52 AMPosted by Cyouskin
11/12/2018 08:45 AMPosted by Blitzkareeg
No, mythic0 is not that much harder than heroic. Theres just a timer.

There's no timer in Mythic 0.

Normal -- Learn the basics of your role in the group. (Includes knowing that you should be using your utility.)
Heroic -- Learn how the mechanics really work. (This is your practice stage.)
Mythic -- Execute your role and execute the mechanics.

This holds true for Raids too.


Completely agree, except the first 2 I can do easier than the last since I can queue. Mythic 0 at the least should be queable but doesnt mean you should complete it. That's going to be up to how well the random people play together.

It doesnt make sense to say this cant be in a queue because it would be too hard and no one would complete the content and complain. If that's the level you have to adjust to I dont have faith in the future of this game. I dont see why it's so hard to just go back to Heroic or create your own group.

Separate having the queue from being able to complete content because they are mutually exclusive
11/10/2018 12:47 PMPosted by Kelgar
let players advance more by making m0 a que.the only place to go to advance is warfronts and lfr.a lot of players would like to run mythic dungeons.since lfr is a que why not m0?

Nothing is stopping you (or anyone else) from opening the group finder.

11/10/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Khëmical
I find the hoops needed to satisfy some of the elitist players isn't worth sitting in front of the computer waiting only to be declined for whatever reason.

"Elitists" aren't doing M0.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum