Blizzard lfr is a que so why not m0?

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11/11/2018 09:27 AMPosted by Byucknah
And just like cata, people will make the same complaints about Mythic 0 stating the mechanics are "bad and overtuned" all while asking for more and more. "Well, mythic 0 is queueable, why are normal raids not? There are multiple difficulties for dungeons we can queue into, why are we restricted to only lfr?" And then "well, we can queue for normal mythic, why not keystone as well?" All while hearing "it's too hard, this mechanic one shot me, nerf the content it's overtuned!"

Every inch Blizzard gives, people attempt to take a mile and throw a tantrum if they don't get it their way. Threaten to unsub, call for people to be fired or removed from their position, go on about how the game is dead, how Blizzard is out of touch with its players, ect.

The system we have now is fine. Finding a group for normal mythics is easy even without a guild or friends. It does not need to be an additional queue.


This is one of those areas where we're going to disagree.

I see the LFG system as being exclusionary in a lot of instances and a challenge for a lot of players to use. And I've seen and heard that M0 is a cakewalk and people should treat them just like they treated heroics prior to the M+ system being implemented.

I think adding them to the queue system would include more players. The whole "people will complain to make it easier" is a red herring from people who are already in the system. There's no reason to exclude people or to not make it more accessible.

You don't hear a lot of people running around saying heroics are too difficult except perhaps for the first couple of weeks. Introducing people to mythic might increase the number of people running keys (hey, I've got a key so I should at least try, right?)

The obstacle really is in finding a group. And the more people looking for a group, the better.

We want people accessing more of the game. Not feeling shut out of major systems.
11/11/2018 09:31 AMPosted by Renouncer
Heroic is the LFR of Dungeons.
M0 is the Normal of Dungeons.


ready for work....work work....jobs done... all in one shot these days...

jobs not done till ur using cannibalize!! filthy alliance.

do undead still have that skill...ive been undercover far to long.
11/10/2018 01:04 PMPosted by Bryce
11/10/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Sinelus
Because Mythic has mechanics that will kill you if you don't pay attention. Casuals ignore these mechanics and would wipe you. Heroic to Mythic is a huge step up and needs teamwork to some extent.
People used LFG for Cata 5-mans at the start of the expansion when they were bad, overtuned, and gave garbage rewards. I think the community on whole can handle +0.


and how did that turn out? people complained so much that they got nerfed...Not everything needs to be in automatic group finder..
11/11/2018 09:37 AMPosted by Crepe
11/11/2018 09:27 AMPosted by Byucknah
And just like cata, people will make the same complaints about Mythic 0 stating the mechanics are "bad and overtuned" all while asking for more and more. "Well, mythic 0 is queueable, why are normal raids not? There are multiple difficulties for dungeons we can queue into, why are we restricted to only lfr?" And then "well, we can queue for normal mythic, why not keystone as well?" All while hearing "it's too hard, this mechanic one shot me, nerf the content it's overtuned!"

Every inch Blizzard gives, people attempt to take a mile and throw a tantrum if they don't get it their way. Threaten to unsub, call for people to be fired or removed from their position, go on about how the game is dead, how Blizzard is out of touch with its players, ect.

The system we have now is fine. Finding a group for normal mythics is easy even without a guild or friends. It does not need to be an additional queue.


This is one of those areas where we're going to disagree.

I see the LFG system as being exclusionary in a lot of instances and a challenge for a lot of players to use. And I've seen and heard that M0 is a cakewalk and people should treat them just like they treated heroics prior to the M+ system being implemented.

I think adding them to the queue system would include more players. The whole "people will complain to make it easier" is a red herring from people who are already in the system. There's no reason to exclude people or to not make it more accessible.

You don't hear a lot of people running around saying heroics are too difficult except perhaps for the first couple of weeks. Introducing people to mythic might increase the number of people running keys (hey, I've got a key so I should at least try, right?)

The obstacle really is in finding a group. And the more people looking for a group, the better.

We want people accessing more of the game. Not feeling shut out of major systems.


u want them to have easier access to that piece of candy so u get access to a piece of their wallet

imagine ur birthday was everyday instead of every year...wonder how that cake would start to taste and what ur wishes would turn into after blowing out those candles.
We want people accessing more of the game. Not feeling shut out of major systems.


At what point should the hand holding stop though. Having normal, heroic, and time walking on a queue as well as LFR it gives players more than enough of a taste to either push into further content or not.

Mythic 0 may not be a problem for me or you, but let me remind you people were complaining about the first set of time walking dungeons for BFA saying they were too hard to the point of being impossible.

The system is fine as it is, people who want to go further can put forth the effort and do so. There has to be a point where players put forth the effort to go past the queue system, socialize, and find people to do stuff with instead of relying on queues.
Honeslty, I don't see an issue with group finder for mythic 0 but it shouldn't be nerfed down like LFR was. It should be the very same mythic 0 we have today and if you don't know how to do very simple mechanics, then you wipe.
so after this gets patched in when do i get the patch that lets me que directly into mythic+ negating the entire world...of warcraft?

hey then we can take out summoning stones cause there irrelevant hoorayyyyy
11/11/2018 09:37 AMPosted by Crepe
You don't hear a lot of people running around saying heroics are too difficult except perhaps for the first couple of weeks.
Again, see the whole beginning of Cata debacle. They introduced moderately harder dungeons (ones where you had to CC mobs and use a just a little bit of coordination and doing so made them much easier to complete - sound familiar?) and the forums erupted with complaints. What makes you think that this time would be any different?
M0 has a once per week each dungeon too. Not the best situation for queues. That would have to go.
11/11/2018 09:37 AMPosted by Crepe
I think adding them to the queue system would include more players. The whole "people will complain to make it easier" is a red herring from people who are already in the system.


11/10/2018 01:22 PMPosted by Kelgar
mythic 0 isnt that much harder then heroic maybe 25%ish.they could tone it down and make it a que


Page ONE, from the OP.
11/11/2018 09:37 AMPosted by Crepe

I see the LFG system as being exclusionary in a lot of instances and a challenge for a lot of players to use. And I've seen and heard that M0 is a cakewalk and people should treat them just like they treated heroics prior to the M+ system being implemented.


M0 is cakewalk because its not filled with antisocial grandma (BFA target audience) that is filling every queueable content out there.

M0 audience actually pressed join group and walk to the instance, i know it doesnt seems much but it would literally shake your average LFR heroes.
11/10/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Sinelus
Because Mythic has mechanics that will kill you if you don't pay attention. Casuals ignore these mechanics and would wipe you. Heroic to Mythic is a huge step up and needs teamwork to some extent.


At least in BFA, all new mechanics are introduced at the Heroic level. Literally NO dungeon introduces a new mechanic at Mythic, they only hit harder and even then it is a joke. All mob mechanics are introduced at Normal and only hit harder at Heroic/Mythic.

There is no reason for Mythic 0 to not be on Group Finder. Mythic dungeons =/= Mythic raiding.
11/11/2018 12:10 PMPosted by Umbrasnout
Literally NO dungeon introduces a new mechanic at Mythic, they only hit harder and even then it is a joke. All mob mechanics are introduced at Normal and only hit harder at Heroic/Mythic.


Thing is, most people who are aware of the general level of skill of queuable content have had experience with issues in that content.

For example... LFR Nazgrim. He had one basic mechanic in LFR and that was to stop DPS when the boss went into defensive stance. A stance that was telegraphed in game with an INGAME alert - no addons required.

Nazgrim ended up the most nerfed LFR boss that expansion because random people just could not grasp the concept of the mechanic to stop dps.

Now imagine this on mythic 0 dungeons. A mechanic that will kill you if you don't move out of it... which is most of them. And people will stand in that mechanic, complain to the forums that it's too hard and needs to be nerfed etc etc etc.

Now what should blizz do? Hang tough and lose players, or nerf it and retain those players but anger those that preferred the mechanics as they were? Also, bear in mind that Mythic normal is the BASELINE for mythic +, so any changes to M0 will affect keys higher up.
I wouldn't mind if it was only M0 that you can do a LFG style search for. Anything beyond that should be done as it is now. I hate losing keystones to people that want to be carried. My main doesn't do too many M+ groups, but I will put in 150% effort and research of the run before I attempt to run it. I will watch strategies and videos of the best way to do a M+ which is why that part should remain separate. No LFG for M+, but totally ok with M0.

There are going to be many storylines that require M0 and the finally of the Alliance storyline requires a M0 to complete. It can be too damn difficult finding a group for M0 (even if you start one yourself). So I guess there is 2 options: 1) Remove storyline quests from M0 dungeons or 2) do a LFG style M0 system.
11/11/2018 12:10 PMPosted by Umbrasnout
There is no reason for Mythic 0 to not be on Group Finder. Mythic dungeons =/= Mythic raiding.
There are many reasons for more difficult content to NOT be queuable. See the beginning of Cataclysm. Seriously, go look up Ghostcrawler's response to all the complaints about those dungeons called "Dungeons are Hard!"

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/2053469/wow-dungeons-are-hard. There are almost 400 pages of replies to that "thread" alone.

Cata dungeons required a small amount of coordination and crowd control. Just like M0. When I healed Cata dungeons with my guild, they weren't necessarily a cakewalk, but they were relatively painless. When I did them with LFG groups they were horrible and took much longer than they should. I remember being in Grim Batol the first week of the expansion and spending over two hours in there. I also remember zoning into Stonecore and the tank immediately leaving. And then the next four tanks proceeded to do the same. People will clamor for nerfs, just like they did back in Cataclysm.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana
11/11/2018 12:35 PMPosted by Repgrìnd
So I guess there is 2 options: 1) Remove storyline quests from M0 dungeons or 2) do a LFG style M0 system.

you forgot the third option: start your own group like everybody else has been doing since the expansion started
11/10/2018 12:55 PMPosted by Kolgait
11/10/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Sinelus
Because Mythic has mechanics that will kill you if you don't pay attention. Casuals ignore these mechanics and would wipe you. Heroic to Mythic is a huge step up and needs teamwork to some extent.


Pretty much anything has mechanics that can kill you if you don't pay attention.


False. In trivial content I can stand in bad for a prolonged period of time. Ignoring mechanics in normal and heroic is more forgiving than it is in m0. And m0 isn't even what I would consider hard or difficult at all.
or

maybe make heroic instances drop 340 or better gear and let mythic 0 as it is drop 355 gear and up the other stuff along that line.

that way queueable heroics would be on par with current warfront drops and emmisary drops etc.
11/10/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Sinelus
Because Mythic has mechanics that will kill you if you don't pay attention. Casuals ignore these mechanics and would wipe you. Heroic to Mythic is a huge step up and needs teamwork to some extent.


Ok you are confusing casuals with bads. Casuals normally don’t have time to commit and resort to queueable content to maximize time online. Bads stand in fire.
11/10/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Sinelus
Because Mythic has mechanics that will kill you if you don't pay attention. Casuals ignore these mechanics and would wipe you. Heroic to Mythic is a huge step up and needs teamwork to some extent.


Not in M0. M0 is much easier.
You can do M0 at any gear level, and it is even easier since a lot of people are willing to carry in M0 and do world tour for all plate/cloth/leather/mail to help out their friend.

While heroic is harder due to ilvl restriction when using LFG, and their friend can't carry them since they can't queue up.

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