Blizzard lfr is a que so why not m0?

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11/11/2018 05:13 PMPosted by Aewendil
11/11/2018 05:09 PMPosted by Dubknight

All want to do m0s, and the only thing holding them back is always themselves.


Incorrect. What is holding them back is the lack of people interested in doing this content.

You're never going to have to wait long for a tank for your 13 underrot key, because there are thousands of tanks looking for a chance to tank that.

The same just isn't true for M0. It's obsolete content that few people are interested in. Wait times are much longer, and that's how queues can help, because queues offer incentives.


Read further down my post. It took my 340-something mage at most 10 mins to get into groups. No one even talked during then aside from "Hey" and "thanks for the run" at the end.

Just like this guy said, 10 mins:

11/11/2018 05:22 PMPosted by Xecks
seriously though. the only person stopping you from doing them is you. mythic 0 needs no queue and fill up within 10 mins of listing in lfg.

stop being so entitled.


11/11/2018 05:20 PMPosted by Areyden
11/11/2018 05:09 PMPosted by Dubknight
Some want someone else to make the group so they can just profit without ever having put forth effort to make the group.


You can get equal rewards from queable content currently. If they are cool with rewarding people with 340+ gear from Warfronts and LFR there is absolutely no reason that Mythic+0 should not be available on the Dungeon Finder.


You are literally the only reason why you can't do them. Like I said, I did 2 of them last night and it was absolutely no issue with a 10 minute wait at longest, on my mage that sure isn't over geared for it.
11/10/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Sinelus
Because Mythic has mechanics that will kill you if you don't pay attention. Casuals ignore these mechanics and would wipe you. Heroic to Mythic is a huge step up and needs teamwork to some extent.


m0 is a learning level, Blizzard could at least try a queable m0 and at this point in BfA it would most likely save some subs even if it only drops 340 gear

I absolutely hate using group finder because the elites have filled it with their toxicity of you need AOTC and ilvl 100000000! or GTFO!
11/11/2018 07:33 PMPosted by Jalen
If there are so many players that desperately need a queue, that means that there's enough people to make their own groups. But just can't be bothered to do so.


Making your own groups doesn't solve the problem though. Making your own group doesn't magically increase the number of groups. There will still only be the same number of tanks, which means the same number of groups. Someone is still going to be missing out on a group.

The only way to increase the number of groups is to increase the number of tanks. And the only way the game has found to do that is by offering bribes, which is only possible in the queue system.

Read further down my post. It took my 340-something mage at most 10 mins to get into groups. No one even talked during then aside from "Hey" and "thanks for the run" at the end.


It's great that your meta class that already outgeared the content it was doing was able to find a group after only 10 minutes of being constantly declined.

You are literally the only reason why you can't do them. Like I said, I did 2 of them last night and it was absolutely no issue with a 10 minute wait at longest, on my mage that sure isn't over geared for it.


Your "340-something" mage is most certainly overgeared for a dungeon that drops 340 gear.
11/11/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Aewendil
11/11/2018 07:33 PMPosted by Jalen
If there are so many players that desperately need a queue, that means that there's enough people to make their own groups. But just can't be bothered to do so.


Making your own groups doesn't solve the problem though. Making your own group doesn't magically increase the number of groups. There will still only be the same number of tanks, which means the same number of groups. Someone is still going to be missing out on a group.

The only way to increase the number of groups is to increase the number of tanks. And the only way the game has found to do that is by offering bribes, which is only possible in the queue system.


So if I go and look right now for a Mythic 0, I will not be able to find one that already has a tank in it.
...then make your own groups. get some gumption and pull yourself up by the bootstraps.


Anyone that says this obviously hasn't tried making a group for a M0 lately.

It's really not as simple as you say. You'll wait a very long time. And unlike waiting in a queue, you have to watch the LFG tool the whole time in case a tank queues. If every single person took your advice and formed their own group, then all you'd have in group finder is a bunch of single person groups looking for 4 other members.

Queues are just a superior way of forming groups for trivial content, which is what M0 is.

You can imagine LFG as an auction, whereas queues are a rationing system.

In LFG a person with high ilvl will have no issues getting into any group, and the LFG system will be great for them. On the other hand, a person with lower gear (or a less desirable spec/class) will get passed over time and time again for people with higher ilvl/meta class.

You can choose to ignore this issue if you want, but it won't go away. People like queues because you are guaranteed a spot in a queue if you are willing to wait. You are not guaranteed a spot in LFG, you can spend all day applying to groups and never get in one. And forming your own group, contrary to the claims of people on here, is not always a solution either. Some dungeons are simply not popular unless there's a WQ in them, and you will frequently wait 30 minutes or more for a group even if you start your own. During which time you have to stare at the LFG tool the whole time.
lol i have formed a group as a dps many times over the last week for mythic 0. longest i had to wait was 15 mins and that was for underrot of all places which is a crapfest of a dungeon if you get even 1 idiot.

my point still stands.

if you arent staring at the lfg tool youll be staring at the mouseover of the green eye with your "sollution".

just grow a pair and freaking do it yourself.
11/11/2018 07:26 PMPosted by Aewendil
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Then
Make
Your
Own
Group

Are you slow?


If everyone having trouble getting into groups made their own group, it wouldn't solve the problem at all. You'd just have 4 times as many groups. The amount of groups is limited by the amount of tanks. Making your own group doesn't cause any extra groups to be formed. All it does is get you a spot instead of someone else.

It's you who is slow if you can't understand that.

Queues alleviate this problem by offering incentives for people to spec other roles.


Queues for m0 only means a little more gear for plebs who cant play the game well and refuse to learn about how the dungeons or raids work and cant be bothered to optimize their gear, stats and talents.

You say making your own groups fixes nothing and queues will but the same issue appears there. Most players don't want to play the most difficult role in the game (healer) and even less the second most difficult (tank). The only thing queues do is make it easier for you to find a group because the game does it for you. Its auto pilot and free just like you want your gear to be. Ignoring the fact you will still be waiting for a healer and tank and you could have made the group caster 9 times outta 10 yourself. You can already get titan forge gear for braindead content on par with heroic raid gear. How much easier does the game have to be for you?

There is nothing wrong with being bad but it doesnt mean you deserve free gear. It's not even like you need anything above 340 to do m0 or heroic. Do the things he game has laid out for casuals like heroic dungeons, fishing, lfr and pet battles. Continually dumbing the game down is why every class plays like trash now.

Lastly, you and others like you will be back in a couple months complaining you cant get in to +10s for the exact same reasons. Literally no one with a brain is interested in queuing a +10 with under geared and unknowlegable players.

The buck for free gear has to stop somewhere.
11/11/2018 07:41 PMPosted by Jalen
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Making your own groups doesn't solve the problem though. Making your own group doesn't magically increase the number of groups. There will still only be the same number of tanks, which means the same number of groups. Someone is still going to be missing out on a group.

The only way to increase the number of groups is to increase the number of tanks. And the only way the game has found to do that is by offering bribes, which is only possible in the queue system.


So if I go and look right now for a Mythic 0, I will not be able to find one that already has a tank in it.


I'm sure you as a 380 hunter will have no problem finding a group. In fact, you could join group after group after group instantly. A lesser geared player though, would be declined from group after group. That is the point.

LFG massively favours people who overgear the content. Why take a 330 DPS when you can take a 360 dps? Which means that the 330s get constantly declined while the 360s easily join whatever group they want, whenever they want.

Queues change this by putting everyone on equal footing, giving a lower geared person the same chance as a higher geared person of finding a group. That is why casual players prefer them.
11/11/2018 07:28 PMPosted by Aewendil
If BC dungeons were meant to be an alternative to raiding, then they would have dropped gear equivalent to raid gear. They did not.


Seriously, Heroics were directly advertised to us as that alternative. They don't need to offer equivalent gear levels to still function as our "final boss", nor should they have. To use your own favorite word, I didn't feel entitled to that -- nor did much of anyone else.

11/11/2018 07:28 PMPosted by Aewendil
What you meant to say is that BC dungeons became an alternative to raiding for people that were locked out of raiding by the attunement system. A system that was abandoned in WOTLK and never seen again.


looooool

You honestly think attunement "locked me out" of raiding? You think it locked anyone out of raiding other than raiders' own alts? Kara attunement was a questline that fed you through a few Normal 5-mans. The ones after that mostly just asked you to complete the previous tier, and only two of the later raid tiers even asked for Heroics at all.

Nothing locked me out of raiding other than a small guild and a college workload. Even as a casual I attuned myself to all the entry-level raids (hell, I even had the brand for BWL, that was just a UBRS run). I don't miss attunement by any stretch, but anyone who found it to be an actual brick wall rather than an annoying speedbump had no business whatsoever being in that raid.
Blizzard is trying to move away from the auto queues for everything model which is why you don’t have a lfg option for mythic 0 even though it’s not really difficult

They want to encourage more old school interactions and player sociability while still having the lfg tool for the easy content that short on time and anti social people like me prefer
11/11/2018 07:45 PMPosted by Aewendil
11/11/2018 07:41 PMPosted by Jalen
...

So if I go and look right now for a Mythic 0, I will not be able to find one that already has a tank in it.


I'm sure you as a 380 hunter will have no problem finding a group. In fact, you could join group after group after group instantly. A lesser geared player though, would be declined from group after group. That is the point.


I need you to answer the question.
11/10/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Sinelus
Because Mythic has mechanics that will kill you if you don't pay attention. Casuals ignore these mechanics and would wipe you. Heroic to Mythic is a huge step up and needs teamwork to some extent.


I had a feeling that a hardcore elitist casual-hater would come in and try to say "Casuals do ___ so that wouldn't work."
11/11/2018 07:43 PMPosted by Xecks

if you arent staring at the lfg tool youll be staring at the mouseover of the green eye with your "sollution".


Except you don't have to monitor the queue eye. It runs in the background and makes a loud noise when your queue is ready. You can do literally anything else while you wait, as long as you don't close WoW. The same is not true for trying to find a group using LFG.
11/11/2018 07:46 PMPosted by Jalen
<span class="truncated">...</span>

I'm sure you as a 380 hunter will have no problem finding a group. In fact, you could join group after group after group instantly. A lesser geared player though, would be declined from group after group. That is the point.


I need you to answer the question.


Yes, obviously you will be able to find a M0 group that has a tank in it. Whether or not you get invited to that group though, depends a lot on your class and ilvl. There are going to be far more DPS applicants than there are spots. A low DPS will likely not be invited.

So again, the reason people prefer queues is that they don't judge you by your ilvl, assuming you are at the minimum required to queue. A 335 has as much chance of getting a group as a 380 does, something that is definitely not true of the LFG tool.

As a low geared DPS you could apply to groups all day and not get invited to one. With a queue, you are guaranteed a group as long as you are willing to wait your turn.
11/11/2018 07:46 PMPosted by Sevaryn

looooool

You honestly think attunement "locked me out" of raiding? You think it locked anyone out of raiding other than raiders' own alts? Kara attunement was a questline that fed you through a few Normal 5-mans.


That's great if you only ever wanted to raid Kara for the whole expansion, which due to attunements, is all that the majority of the player base could do.

Your 10 man Kara guild had to find 15 new players to even attempt Gruul, and you couldn't apply to join a 25 man guild because you weren't attuned to the content they were doing. You were basically stuck hoping that your guild could merge with 2 other guilds and put a 25-man raid team together, or you resigned yourself to farming Kara for 12 months.
11/11/2018 07:53 PMPosted by Aewendil
11/11/2018 07:46 PMPosted by Jalen
...

I need you to answer the question.


Yes, obviously you will be able to find a M0 group that has a tank in it. Whether or not you get invited to that group though, depends a lot on your class and ilvl. There are going to be far more DPS applicants than there are spots. A low DPS will likely not be invited.

So again, the reason people prefer queues is that they don't judge you by your ilvl, assuming you are at the minimum required to queue. A 335 has as much chance of getting a group as a 380 does, something that is definitely not true of the LFG tool.


But, AND FOLLOW ME ON THIS ONE, if you made your own group then you can invite anyone that you want.
11/11/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Aewendil
11/11/2018 07:43 PMPosted by Xecks

if you arent staring at the lfg tool youll be staring at the mouseover of the green eye with your "sollution".


Except you don't have to monitor the queue eye. It runs in the background and makes a loud noise when your queue is ready. You can do literally anything else while you wait, as long as you don't close WoW. The same is not true for trying to find a group using LFG.
it doesnt matter. you would wait longer for a queue for mythic 0 than you would forming a group on your own.

if all the sudden people everywhere started starting their own groups it might actually be an issue. but do you really think theres some sort of casual revolution going to happen any time soon?

and so you know , depending on which mythic it is i will invite sub 340 people to join.

also make some freaking friends or get into a guild that will bring you through content. its an MMO for crap sake.
11/11/2018 07:57 PMPosted by Jalen

But, AND FOLLOW ME ON THIS ONE, if you made your own group then you can invite anyone that you want.


Again though, and try really hard to follow me on this one: Making your own group doesn't actually help the situation overall. It might help you personally, but it doesn't help the 25 other DPS who are also looking for a group. There are still only the same number of groups.

So telling people "make your own group" might help that specific person, but it doesn't address the issue as a whole, which is that the LFG tool inevitably leads to the same people being rejected over and over again due to the ilvl arms race.

Queues address this in 2 ways:
1. It doesn't matter your ilvl, if you are willing to wait your turn, you'll get a spot.
2. It encourages more tanks/healers to queue by way of bribe satchels.

So please, you aren't really being clever by telling people to "make their own group". Making your own group has never, and will never address the age old issue of there being more DPS players than there are spots in groups for them. Queues do address this issue.
11/11/2018 07:59 PMPosted by Xecks

if all the sudden people everywhere started starting their own groups it might actually be an issue. but do you really think theres some sort of casual revolution going to happen any time soon?


No, because what actually happens is that people just give up and don't do the content at all. There are already multiple people in this thread who have said they don't do M0 because they don't want to deal with the group finder. For elitists, that's a perfectly acceptable solution because they don't think those people should be allowed to do content anyway.
Untrue. We just realize that anything that ends up queueable eventually ends up getting nerfed into pure faceroll because the people that insist everything be available in it also tend to whine that it's too hard.


I don't want anything nerfed! i enjoy more challenging content! I've got mage tower skins on my previous char. I can't stand the trivial nature of warfronts, islands, and wqs!

You could make the requirement tied to some kind of experience in heroics to queue m0.

11/11/2018 07:37 PMPosted by Kathyna
m0 is a learning level, Blizzard could at least try a queable m0 and at this point in BfA it would most likely save some subs even if it only drops 340 gear


That's true in my case. sub is up in a couple days.

11/11/2018 07:45 PMPosted by Mêphiston
Queues for m0 only means a little more gear for plebs who cant play the game well and refuse to learn about how the dungeons or raids work and cant be bothered to optimize their gear, stats and talents.


get out of here with that crap. your hyperbole is off base and not constructive.

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