Kaldorei Revenge:How long?

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11/13/2018 02:59 PMPosted by Zabriel
What plot armor are you talking about? Is the same plot armor the Alliance has

i never said that the alliance didn't have the same plot armor.
that is not an excuse.because in the end is just bad writing for both.
11/13/2018 03:04 PMPosted by Saiphas
<span class="truncated">...</span>

What plot armor are you talking about? Is the same plot armor the Alliance has, we know is not going to happen. Now, that doesn't mean we cannot suffer a major defeat but if that happens it's only fair we get to strike back in 8.2.


You guys already got that, it’s called the War of Thorns. And BfL was essentially a dual loss for both, as expressed both by the devs and Lost Honor showing the numbers of war deadness a Stormwind suffered.

BfDa was our response.


WoT it's what starts the war, I don't see the Battle of Dazar'alor as the ending for it. That's actually my point, the whole plot for this expansion is the faction war and you can't have only one side attacking and winning it has to come back and forward until the end in which we have to face N'zoth and this one is super obvious.

Edit:
@Etheldald
Agree.
Revenge? In a faction that's Lawful Good to the point of stupidity?

Its less likely than you think!
11/13/2018 03:26 PMPosted by Anyaceltica
Revenge? In a faction that's Lawful Good to the point of stupidity?

Its less likely than you think!

But...

Muh fangs
11/13/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Galenorn
11/13/2018 03:26 PMPosted by Anyaceltica
Revenge? In a faction that's Lawful Good to the point of stupidity?

Its less likely than you think!

But...

Muh fangs


But muh 'totallynotanemperor' Anduin feels sad and that's all that Alliance players are supposed to care about in Blizzard's eyes. Think about how upset your king* feels at you wanting revenge.

*Is technically only king of human players, but it doesn't stop Blizzard and idiots from thinking he's the 'king' of the entire alliance even when that makes it a empire.
11/13/2018 03:36 PMPosted by Anyaceltica
11/13/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Galenorn
...
But...

Muh fangs


But muh 'totallynotanemperor' Anduin feels sad and that's all that Alliance players are supposed to care about in Blizzard's eyes. Think about how upset your king* feels at you wanting revenge.

*Is technically only king of human players, but it doesn't stop Blizzard and idiots from thinking he's the 'king' of the entire alliance even when that makes it a empire.

Pretty sure I was much more sad and upset, when the civilian population of Teldrassil became kindling.
...

You guys already got that, it’s called the War of Thorns. And BfL was essentially a dual loss for both, as expressed both by the devs and Lost Honor showing the numbers of war deadness a Stormwind suffered.

BfDa was our response.


WoT it's what starts the war, I don't see the Battle of Dazar'alor as the ending for it. That's actually my point, the whole plot for this expansion is the faction war and you can't have only one side attacking and winning it has to come back and forward until the end in which we have to face N'zoth and this one is super obvious.

Edit:
@Etheldald
Agree.


Dazar'alor is the response to the WoT and the nullpoint of BfL. You are right that it does not end the war, IT Does count as the Alliance counterblow to all the prepatch stuff though. As to if they will continue the faction war stuff, we shall see.
11/13/2018 04:44 PMPosted by Saiphas
...

WoT it's what starts the war, I don't see the Battle of Dazar'alor as the ending for it. That's actually my point, the whole plot for this expansion is the faction war and you can't have only one side attacking and winning it has to come back and forward until the end in which we have to face N'zoth and this one is super obvious.

Edit:
@Etheldald
Agree.


Dazar'alor is the response to the WoT and the nullpoint of BfL. You are right that it does not end the war, IT Does count as the Alliance counterblow to all the prepatch stuff though. As to if they will continue the faction war stuff, we shall see.


BfL was the Alliance counterblow. Each side lost the same amount of territory and a capital. You think it doesn't count because the Horde was forced to blow up the capital themselves (in a FAILED attempt to kill the Alliance leaders)? The Horde was fighting to win that battle and defend that city and zone.

It is ridiculous to depict it as anything other than a Horde loss.
11/13/2018 04:59 PMPosted by Carmageddon
You think it doesn't count because the Horde was forced to blow up the capital themselves (in a FAILED attempt to kill the Alliance leaders)? The Horde was fighting to win that battle and defend that city and zone.


Pyrrhic victory, as they say. So yes, we don't consider it an equalizer. Not to mention the War of Thorns was not just the burning of Teldrassil, that was just the final point. However the thing in it's entirety saw the Alliance lose multiple zones; Ashenvale, Darkshore and finally Teldrassil. Battle for Lordaeron only saw the loss of Tirisfal for the Horde. The equivalent would've had to been something like, Hillsbrad, Silverpine AND Tirisfal falling at the end in an equal war campaign.
...

Dazar'alor is the response to the WoT and the nullpoint of BfL. You are right that it does not end the war, IT Does count as the Alliance counterblow to all the prepatch stuff though. As to if they will continue the faction war stuff, we shall see.


BfL was the Alliance counterblow. Each side lost the same amount of territory and a capital. You think it doesn't count because the Horde was forced to blow up the capital themselves (in a FAILED attempt to kill the Alliance leaders)? The Horde was fighting to win that battle and defend that city and zone.

It is ridiculous to depict it as anything other than a Horde loss.


Essentially what Sav said. Blizz themselves have called BfL a loss for the Horde and explicitly not a victory for the Alliance. (Ion on 8.1 announcement). The horde inflicted horrific losses on the Alliance at the undercity, so much so that had Anduin been in a modern military he would have been cashiered for gross negligence. As much as we joke about populations not mattering, it clearly does when blizzard is framing the cost of BfL to be sooo huge to the Alliance forces.
...

Dazar'alor is the response to the WoT and the nullpoint of BfL. You are right that it does not end the war, IT Does count as the Alliance counterblow to all the prepatch stuff though. As to if they will continue the faction war stuff, we shall see.


BfL was the Alliance counterblow. Each side lost the same amount of territory and a capital. You think it doesn't count because the Horde was forced to blow up the capital themselves (in a FAILED attempt to kill the Alliance leaders)? The Horde was fighting to win that battle and defend that city and zone.

It is ridiculous to depict it as anything other than a Horde loss.


Blizz panicked when Alliance players complained about literally everything in BfA and told them BfL was a loss so they'll be getting their win "soon". I'm starting to think the only wins Alliance care about are completely stomping the other side without even breaking a sweat.
11/13/2018 05:08 PMPosted by Saiphas
...

BfL was the Alliance counterblow. Each side lost the same amount of territory and a capital. You think it doesn't count because the Horde was forced to blow up the capital themselves (in a FAILED attempt to kill the Alliance leaders)? The Horde was fighting to win that battle and defend that city and zone.

It is ridiculous to depict it as anything other than a Horde loss.


Essentially what Sav said. Blizz themselves have called BfL a loss for the Horde and explicitly not a victory for the Alliance. (Ion on 8.1 announcement). The horde inflicted horrific losses on the Alliance at the undercity, so much so that had Anduin been in a modern military he would have been cashiered for gross negligence. As much as we joke about populations not mattering, it clearly does when blizzard is framing the cost of BfL to be sooo huge to the Alliance forces.


You guys don't want to acknowledge that victory just because you didn't wipe the entire Horde. And as is mention before The Alliance is winning in every front of the war, that only leaves room for a counter attack later in 8.2.
11/13/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Okagha
I'm starting to think the only wins Alliance care about are completely stomping the other side without even breaking a sweat.


So, like the wins the Horde get then.

Again, the result of the War of Thorns was the loss of 3 zones for the Alliance.
The result of Battle for Lordaeron was the loss of 1 zone for the Horde.
And that 1 zone the Horde lost? It's not even occupied by the Alliance because of scorched earth.
Objectively unequal results.

It has nothing to do with wanting to "wipe out the entire Horde".
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Essentially what Sav said. Blizz themselves have called BfL a loss for the Horde and explicitly not a victory for the Alliance. (Ion on 8.1 announcement). The horde inflicted horrific losses on the Alliance at the undercity, so much so that had Anduin been in a modern military he would have been cashiered for gross negligence. As much as we joke about populations not mattering, it clearly does when blizzard is framing the cost of BfL to be sooo huge to the Alliance forces.


You guys don't want to acknowledge that victory just because you didn't wipe the entire Horde. And as is mention before The Alliance is winning in every front of the war, that only leaves room for a counter attack later in 8.2.


Ummm, wut? no I am literally using the wow Announcement for tides of vengeance.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/311722491

13:30 "And Alliance really suffered a number of heavy losses throughout that process. Of course the tree at Teldrassil was burnt down, they thought they had the upperhand at the battle for Lordaeron, the undercity, but victory...sorry defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory." I am not sure how much more clear you need that BfL was not an alliance win.

Also, I am not sure you know my post history, but never once have I said that the entire horde should be wiped out...like ever.
11/13/2018 05:18 PMPosted by Zabriel
that only leaves room for a counter attack later in 8.2.

Sure. By all means, step up and get villain batted again.

How will you win this time? Abominations and flesh titans crafted from Draenei orphans?
11/13/2018 05:20 PMPosted by Savanovic
11/13/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Okagha
I'm starting to think the only wins Alliance care about are completely stomping the other side without even breaking a sweat.


So, like the wins the Horde get then.

Again, the result of the War of Thorns was the loss of 3 zones for the Alliance.
The result of Battle for Lordaeron was the loss of 1 zone for the Horde.
And that 1 zone the Horde lost? It's not even occupied by the Alliance because of scorched earth.


If the roles in WoT were reversed you'd be complaining that the Alliance struggled too much against an inferior fighting force. And as for the zones, the mission table paints the picture that all of the Nelf and Forsaken territory is contested
11/13/2018 05:18 PMPosted by Zabriel
You guys don't want to acknowledge that victory just because you didn't wipe the entire Horde. And as is mention before The Alliance is winning in every front of the war, that only leaves room for a counter attack later in 8.2.


you seem to be confused with the thread, we can discuss the alliance or horde victory another time, the alliance winning in 8.1 is deserved, we deserve to win the war. because well, we aren't genocidal maniacs.

but this thread is about the kaldorei revenge, getting spotlight or well, damaging the horde in a eye for an eye.
was lordaeron their revenge? no,when the kaldorei burn a capital with all of their civilians inside while stomping everything in their path then we are talking of what they deserve.

so.. are we going to have it when, in 6 or 8 years from now?
11/13/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Okagha
If the roles in WoT were reversed you'd be complaining that the Alliance struggled too much against an inferior fighting force.


well, because at the start of the pre-patch the alliance were superior this is literally stated by ingame characters and devs the horde don't stand a chance if this were written correctly. you know, having interdimensional ships, demigods and weapons of mass destruction.
11/13/2018 05:20 PMPosted by Savanovic
11/13/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Okagha
I'm starting to think the only wins Alliance care about are completely stomping the other side without even breaking a sweat.


So, like the wins the Horde get then.

Again, the result of the War of Thorns was the loss of 3 zones for the Alliance.
The result of Battle for Lordaeron was the loss of 1 zone for the Horde.
And that 1 zone the Horde lost? It's not even occupied by the Alliance because of scorched earth.
Objectively unequal results.

It has nothing to do with wanting to "wipe out the entire Horde".


11/13/2018 05:20 PMPosted by Savanovic
11/13/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Okagha
I'm starting to think the only wins Alliance care about are completely stomping the other side without even breaking a sweat.


So, like the wins the Horde get then.

Again, the result of the War of Thorns was the loss of 3 zones for the Alliance.
The result of Battle for Lordaeron was the loss of 1 zone for the Horde.
And that 1 zone the Horde lost? It's not even occupied by the Alliance because of scorched earth.
Objectively unequal results.

It has nothing to do with wanting to "wipe out the entire Horde".


And now there is a new warfront and storyline around those zones with the purpose to get them back while getting revenge for what happen at Teldrasil.
11/13/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Okagha
If the roles in WoT were reversed you'd be complaining that the Alliance struggled too much against an inferior fighting force. And as for the zones, the mission table paints the picture that all of the Nelf and Forsaken territory is contested


Very cool that I never actually see or participate with the things told to me on the mission table.
You got to march through 2 zones killing off the Alliance, and then burn down a city. We got a scenario where we win 1 Pyrrhic victory.

If the roles were reversed I would have been quite happy, actually. Sadly, they were not.

11/13/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Zabriel
And now there is a new warfront and storyline around those zones with the purpose to get them back while getting revenge for what happen at Teldrasil.


Excuse me but I thought that is the entire point that was being discussed? The new patch is meant to be the equalizer for the War of Thorns. You people are saying that isn't fair to the Horde, somehow?
11/13/2018 05:20 PMPosted by Savanovic
So, like the wins the Horde get then.


The wins that the Horde gets require an incredible sacrifice of unity and enjoyment of the Horde storyline for players. This is wholly monkey paw territory.

11/13/2018 04:44 PMPosted by Saiphas
Dazar'alor is the response to the WoT and the nullpoint of BfL. You are right that it does not end the war, IT Does count as the Alliance counterblow to all the prepatch stuff though. As to if they will continue the faction war stuff, we shall see.


The problem is, they have not really indicated that the faction war continues in 8.2 - they've spent all their time hyping Naga. If the faction war ends at the 8.1 status quo, then it's a loss for the Horde. A brutal loss for the Horde. A loss where we spent essentially no time enjoying victory of any kind.

If the faction war ends as-is on the events of 8.1, the Horde will be the losers by far, they will be irredeemably evil, incompetent, AND they will be fighting a civil war while in a weakened state. 8.1 represents such an incredible nadir for the Horde story, yet I still fear that's where they'll end the faction war, with their scoreboard having come up as some twisted version of "even" even as every story thematic says otherwise.

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