Kaldorei Revenge:How long?

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11/14/2018 05:58 PMPosted by Jellex
The Blizzcon 8.2 teasers make it seem like there's both a hard swing towards Naga (no faction war) and a tripling down on Sylvanas villainy. If this is the direction they're moving the plot, then where's the room for the Horde counterattack?


a valid fear, but i think that the naga are just going to be a minor distraction.
i really doubt that we are going to shift from the war theme so soon.
hell, i can even see an alliance city raided in 8.3.
At Blizzcon they state the War Campaign is still on going in 8.2, with it centering on Sylvanas, Anduin and Jaina. My hope is it means the NEs get to have the confrontation with Azshara as it should be.
11/14/2018 06:51 PMPosted by Saiphas
At Blizzcon they state the War Campaign is still on going in 8.2, with it centering on Sylvanas, Anduin and Jaina. My hope is it means the NEs get to have the confrontation with Azshara as it should be.


This reads to me like it will be about the conclusion of the Derek nonsense, which I wish would just go away already. T_T
11/14/2018 06:54 PMPosted by Jellex
11/14/2018 06:51 PMPosted by Saiphas
At Blizzcon they state the War Campaign is still on going in 8.2, with it centering on Sylvanas, Anduin and Jaina. My hope is it means the NEs get to have the confrontation with Azshara as it should be.


This reads to me like it will be about the conclusion of the Derek nonsense, which I wish would just go away already. T_T


Silver lining, it means that it won't carry on to 8.3??
11/14/2018 06:45 PMPosted by Etheldald
11/14/2018 05:58 PMPosted by Jellex
The Blizzcon 8.2 teasers make it seem like there's both a hard swing towards Naga (no faction war) and a tripling down on Sylvanas villainy. If this is the direction they're moving the plot, then where's the room for the Horde counterattack?


a valid fear, but i think that the naga are just going to be a minor distraction.
i really doubt that we are going to shift from the war theme so soon.
hell, i can even see an alliance city raided in 8.3.


Yeah, by the looks of that "Ship Graveyard" both factions find themselves in, I wouldn't be shocked if its largely comprised of Kul Tiras ships. 8.1 is the Alliance counterattack; 8.2 is the Naga entry (though I would be shocked if Azshara died, she doesn't seem the type to sacrifice an Empire for a Palace); so I wouldn't be surprised if the Horde uses the advantage of 8.1 and 8.2 to hit the already very stretched thin Alliance somewhere where it really hurts.
11/14/2018 06:56 PMPosted by Droité
Yeah, by the looks of that "Ship Graveyard" both factions find themselves in, I wouldn't be shocked if its largely comprised of Kul Tiras ships. 8.1 is the Alliance counterattack; 8.2 is the Naga entry (though I would be shocked if Azshara died, she doesn't seem the type to sacrifice an Empire for a Palace); so I wouldn't be surprised if the Horde uses the advantage of 8.1 and 8.2 to hit the already very stretched thin Alliance somewhere where it really hurts.


This doesn't really feel very good either, though. Where's the #factionpride in needing a third party to attack your enemy before you can land a blow? Basically, this would just continue the theme of making the Horde look weak in a "can't win in a straight fight" fashion, meaning that we'd continue to be the faction of sneak attacks, atrocities, and superweapon macguffins. I for one do not wish for such a future.
11/14/2018 07:01 PMPosted by Jellex
11/14/2018 06:56 PMPosted by Droité
Yeah, by the looks of that "Ship Graveyard" both factions find themselves in, I wouldn't be shocked if its largely comprised of Kul Tiras ships. 8.1 is the Alliance counterattack; 8.2 is the Naga entry (though I would be shocked if Azshara died, she doesn't seem the type to sacrifice an Empire for a Palace); so I wouldn't be surprised if the Horde uses the advantage of 8.1 and 8.2 to hit the already very stretched thin Alliance somewhere where it really hurts.


This doesn't really feel very good either, though. Where's the #factionpride in needing a third party to attack your enemy before you can land a blow? Basically, this would just continue the theme of making the Horde look weak in a "can't win in a straight fight" fashion, meaning that we'd continue to be the faction of sneak attacks, atrocities, and superweapon macguffins. I for one do not wish for such a future.


We can't win in a straight fight. We've never been able to win a straight fight, that's nothing new. The Horde has always sort of been the type to capitalize on good fortune, and hit an enemy where they're weak (and if you're a Bilgewater or Forsaken, you'll liable to play SUPER dirty to do it too. Its our way).

Plus, it was almost garaunteed that whichever faction was in the lead early in the expansion where the ones most likely to get slammed hard by the Naga. The Alliance is winning as of 8.1, they're set to take that slap. If it were the Horde in the lead in 8.1, it would likely be the reverse (and the Alliance making the best of it).
We can't win in a straight fight. We've never been able to win a straight fight, that's nothing new. The Horde has always sort of been the type to capitalize on good fortune, and hit an enemy where they're weak (and if you're a Bilgewater or Forsaken, you'll liable to play SUPER dirty to do it too).


Have they not taken pains to say that the factions are of roughly equal strength in the past? When did the Horde become unable to fight the Alliance in a normal battle?
11/14/2018 07:12 PMPosted by Jellex
We can't win in a straight fight. We've never been able to win a straight fight, that's nothing new. The Horde has always sort of been the type to capitalize on good fortune, and hit an enemy where they're weak (and if you're a Bilgewater or Forsaken, you'll liable to play SUPER dirty to do it too).


Have they not taken pains to say that the factions are of roughly equal strength in the past? When did the Horde become unable to fight the Alliance in a normal battle?


"Equal" is a loose term, and it doesn't need to mean equivalent. The Horde has its strengths and weaknesses, the Alliance has theirs ... doesn't mean they're the same; and normally they balance eachother out in strength.

However, the Horde has never been particularly strong at battling against the Alliance at their own game. The races of the Horde are too diverse and divided for that, but at the same time Sylvie has (if nothing else) proven she's very good at playing at each Horde races individual strengths (placing them where they need to go; or keeping them away from areas that would cause internal conflict ... until Derek).

Bilgewater and Forsaken won't play fair, and those are the two races Sylvie seems most fond of utilizing due to their amoral nature. Sylvie is also extremely amoral herself, and since she's the Warchief she sets the tone for the faction.
11/14/2018 07:25 AMPosted by Droité
11/13/2018 09:22 PMPosted by Hahahahahaha
Throwing away some lvl 1 trash mobs when there are LITERALLY infinitely more of them means nothing.

Did a single named character sacrifice themselves? Geblin got an upgrade for 8.2, and Jaina is completely fine 30 seconds later chatting it up with the Alliance leaders.


Blademaster Telaamon sacrifices himself on the Suicide Mission
Literally who? I had to look him up on Wowpedia and it says the only thing he's ever done is you have to click him during 1 quest once. You are kind of proving my point...

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blademaster_Telaamon
11/14/2018 07:20 PMPosted by Hahahahahaha
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Blademaster Telaamon sacrifices himself on the Suicide Mission
Literally who?


He's the LF Draeni Blademaster during the Argus campaign. Got to know him decently while grinding rep there to unlock the allied races.
11/14/2018 01:09 PMPosted by Verlius
11/14/2018 01:01 PMPosted by Akiyass
...

Being condicending while claiming to be on my side makes me inclined to not take you seriously...

...

Then stop playing Horde is you feel bad for playing Horde.


Or the story could be fun for everyone?


Ha, that will never happen. Not only because you can't please everyone, but the devs don't even want that, as they like the division bfa causes.

But what do you (or anyone else who wants to answer) think would make this story fun for most people?

Horde posters seem to be really doubling down on this 'fun' thing in a thread about kaldorei vengeance, interestingly enough.
11/14/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Yrithe
Horde posters seem to be really doubling down on this 'fun' thing in a thread about kaldorei vengeance, interestingly enough.


I would venture to guess that's because "Kaldorei vengeance" involves punishing Horde players for events that they neither really wanted nor liked. This is not very fun.

That said, I bet BfA WOULD have been more pleasing if it had been written as a series of super epic clashes starring all the unique stuff from each side's different races and there was a little bit more of a seesaw/running battle feel rather than these huge haymakers that take up an entire patch.
11/14/2018 08:23 PMPosted by Jellex
11/14/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Yrithe
Horde posters seem to be really doubling down on this 'fun' thing in a thread about kaldorei vengeance, interestingly enough.


I would venture to guess that's because "Kaldorei vengeance" involves punishing Horde players for events that they neither really wanted nor liked. This is not very fun.

That said, I bet BfA WOULD have been more pleasing if it had been written as a series of super epic clashes starring all the unique stuff from each side's different races and there was a little bit more of a seesaw/running battle feel rather than these huge haymakers that take up an entire patch.


I just don't recall many Horde posters who were concerned if Alliance players (or Night Elf fans in particular) were having fun during War of Thorns. Most noise from that fanbase (not necessarily here but in general on the internet) was mix between the same handful of unfunny 'burning Night Elf' jokes repeated daily or I saw "But but whatabout the Horde though? Now we have to get a new Warchief? Poor us." And Night Elf fans have been hearing this for months and months. I'm just trying to put this in perspective to show why your side likely isn't going to get a lot of sympathy from some Alliance/nelf fans, probably nelves the most.

And now we have to go back to a Horde's feelings focus again...'fun' is important when Alliance/nelf fans want some kind of narrative retribution for the genocide committed against them. Even if it's just killing Sylvanas....that's something at least. But that would mean killing another warchief and this would be bad for the Horde, or something.

As for your suggestion, I think that would still frustrate people who want clear 'wins' for their team. And some would believe their favorite faction/race is being weakened just so the other side can come up even against them. I just think any kind of faction war is going to make someone look bad and feel bad, which is why I hate faction war stories.

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