The "You're not entitled" myth...

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11/06/2018 10:25 AMPosted by Mvura
In other words, players believe they're gods.
Ahem. We are the gods in the Blizz universe. Ever-spewing gods from which all good things flow, like stock prices and continued paychecks. Individually, we're pretty puny gods, collectively, we are mighty.

It's a mutually beneficial parasitic relationship. They present us with offerings of game content, we bless them with money. When the offerings are acceptable, we shower them with money, and bring in more gods for them to worship. When the offerings are sub-par, the gods go find other amusement and more productive worshippers.

Right now, Blizz is short multiple millions of gods who have left to find other worshippers.
11/06/2018 10:49 AMPosted by Awkaran
I think "you're just entitled" comes from people who have entitlement issues themselves.


It comes from being on the receiving end of entitled people.

Neil Gaiman on Entitlement Issues:
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

In this article he talks to a fan who is upset that GRR was lagging on releasing the final book of the Song of Fire and Ice series.

Hi Neil,

I've recently subscribed to George RR Martin's blog (http://grrm.livejournal.com/) in the hopes of getting some inside information regarding when the next "Song of Ice and Fire" book is due to be released. I love the series but since subscribing to the blog I've become increasingly frustrated with Martin's lack of communication on the next novel's publication date. In fact, it's almost as though he is doing everything in his power to avoid working on his latest novel. Which poses a few questions:

1. With blogs and twitter and other forms of social media do you think the audience has too much input when it comes to scrutinising the actions of an artist? If you had announced a new book two years ago and were yet to deliver do you think avoiding the topic on your blog would lead readers to believe you were being "slack"? By blogging about your work and life do you have more of a responsibility to deliver on your commitments?

2. When writing a series of books, like Martin is with "A Song of Ice and Fire" what responsibility does he have to finish the story? Is it unrealistic to think that by not writing the next chapter Martin is letting me down, even though if and when the book gets written is completely up to him?

Would be very interested in your insight.

Cheers
Gareth

My opinion....

1) No.

2) Yes, it's unrealistic of you to think George is "letting you down".

Look, this may not be palatable, Gareth, and I keep trying to come up with a better way to put it, but the simplicity of things, at least from my perspective is this:

George R.R. Martin is not your !@#$%.

This is a useful thing to know, perhaps a useful thing to point out when you find yourself thinking that possibly George is, indeed, your ^-*!@, and should be out there typing what you want to read right now.

People are not machines. Writers and artists aren't machines.

You're complaining about George doing other things than writing the books you want to read as if your buying the first book in the series was a contract with him: that you would pay over your ten dollars, and George for his part would spend every waking hour until the series was done, writing the rest of the books for you.

No such contract existed. You were paying your ten dollars for the book you were reading, and I assume that you enjoyed it because you want to know what happens next.

It seems to me that the biggest problem with series books is that either readers complain that the books used to be good but that somewhere in the effort to get out a book every year the quality has fallen off, or they complain that the books, although maintaining quality, aren't coming out on time.

Both of these things make me glad that I am not currently writing a series, and make me even gladder that the decade that I did write series things, in Sandman, I was young, driven, a borderline workaholic, and very fortunate. (and even then, towards the end, I was taking five weeks to write a monthly comic, with all the knock-on problems in deadlines that you would expect from that).

For me, I would rather read a good book, from a contented author. I don't really care what it takes to produce that.

Some writers need a while to charge their batteries, and then write their books very rapidly. Some writers write a page or so every day, rain or shine. Some writers run out of steam, and need to do whatever it is they happen to do until they're ready to write again. Sometimes writers haven't quite got the next book in a series ready in their heads, but they have something else all ready instead, so they write the thing that's ready to go, prompting cries of outrage from people who want to know why the author could possibly write Book X while the fans were waiting for Book Y.

I remember hearing an upset comics editor telling a roomful of other editors about a comics artist who had taken a few weeks off to paint his house. The editor pointed out, repeatedly, that for the money the artist would have been paid for those weeks' work he could easily have afforded to hire someone to paint his house, and made money too. And I thought, but did not say, “But what if he wanted to paint his house?”

I blew a deadline recently. Terminally blew it. First time in 25 years I've sighed and said, “I can't do this, and you won't get your story.” It was already late, I was under a bunch of deadline pressure, my father died, and suddenly the story, too, was dead on the page. I liked the voice it was in, but it wasn't working, and eventually, rather than drive the editors and publishers mad waiting for a story that wasn't going to come, I gave up on it and apologised, worried that I could no longer write fiction.

I turned my attention to the next deadline waiting – a script. It flowed easily and delightfully, was the most fun I've had writing anything in ages, all the characters did exactly what I had hoped they would do, and the story was better than I had dared to hope.

Sometimes it happens like that. You don't choose what will work. You simply do the best you can each time. And you try to do what you can to increase the likelihood that good art will be created.

And sometimes, and it's as true of authors as it is of readers, you have a life. People in your world get sick or die. You fall in love, or out of love. You move house. Your aunt comes to stay. You agreed to give a talk half-way around the world five years ago, and suddenly you realise that that talk is due now. Your last book comes out and the critics vociferously hated it and now you simply don't feel like writing another. Your cat learns to levitate and the matter must be properly documented and investigated. There are deer in the apple orchard. A thunderstorm fries your hard disk and fries the backup drive as well...

And life is a good thing for a writer. It's where we get our raw material, for a start. We quite like to stop and watch it.

The economics of scale for a writer mean that very few of us can afford to write 5,000 page books and then break them up and publish them annually once they are done. So writers with huge stories, or ones that, as Sandman did, grow in the telling, are going to write them and have them published as they go along.

And if you are waiting for a new book in a long ongoing series, whether from George or from Pat Rothfuss or from someone else...

Wait. Read the original book again. Read something else. Get on with your life. Hope that the author is writing the book you want to read, and not dying, or something equally as dramatic. And if he paints the house, that's fine.

And Gareth, in the future, when you see other people complaining that George R.R. Martin has been spotted doing something other than writing the book they are waiting for, explain to them, more politely than I did the first time, the simple and unanswerable truth: George R. R. Martin is not working for you.

Hope that helps.
the corporatist, consumerist mindset in this thread is sickening.

why anyone would ever bow and support a company in this way is beyond me. you're all truly deplorable and awful people.

op is right. we're the ones that put money in their bank account. WE are the ones that should ultimately decide what they make.
11/06/2018 08:28 AMPosted by Tinúviel
This post reeks of the "customer is always right" mentality that, having worked in customer service, I loathe. You are not entitled to your own personal wishlist being granted to you from this company. You are entitled to what they promise you. If they say "We will release an expansion on August 14th" and they release it after August 14th, you have been wronged. The community is not a collective voice, and individuals disagree. Only when those opinions are made known and tracked as a whole can a company actually act on them.

11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Onorlus
WE pay Blizzard. They work for us.

No. No they don't. The customer is not always right. You have absolutely no creative control over Blizzard content, that's what they pay game developers for. Your role is to play the games and offer feedback, and if they don't make their games to your liking, you stop paying for them.
I'm glad you no longer work in customer service.
11/06/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Älexandra
WE are the ones that should ultimately decide what they make.

Gross.

WoW would be a mess if it were left up to the players what to make.
11/06/2018 08:46 AMPosted by Zeropointt
You’re absolutely right, OP. But you’re still going to get a whole lot of responses arguing that, essentially, you should just be quiet and be happy with whatever you get because you’re not as important as you think you are, and your business and money isn’t as important as you think it is.

Some of these replies will come from Activision stockholders.
And some replies will come from Activision employees. Don't think for a minute they're not on top of their branding and "community engagement" programs.
11/06/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Älexandra
the corporatist, consumerist mindset in this thread is sickening.

why anyone would ever bow and support a company in this way is beyond me. you're all truly deplorable and awful people.

op is right. we're the ones that put money in their bank account. WE are the ones that should ultimately decide what they make.


Which, in turn, means they should be listening. As of the Blzzcon news they at least appear to be somewhat, though probably begrudgingly.

We are the customers, so we are entitled to receive the best product that they can come up with...and it is also our right to express displeasure when we don't.

We tend to shoot ourselves in the foot though because they KNOW what we will eat up. Blizzard knows how to prey on their player bases.
11/06/2018 11:15 AMPosted by Xeldra
11/06/2018 08:46 AMPosted by Zeropointt
You’re absolutely right, OP. But you’re still going to get a whole lot of responses arguing that, essentially, you should just be quiet and be happy with whatever you get because you’re not as important as you think you are, and your business and money isn’t as important as you think it is.

Some of these replies will come from Activision stockholders.
And some replies will come from Activision employees. Don't think for a minute they're not on top of their branding and "community engagement" programs.

Here comes the tinfoil..
11/06/2018 08:50 AMPosted by Onorlus
11/06/2018 08:39 AMPosted by Kirela
If I buy a toaster and then get upset it doesn't also come with a waffle iron then that's my bad for putting my money on that toaster (very simple example).


This is a perfect example. Let me apply it to what I'm saying....

You own a company that makes toasters. You have many customers. But over time, a large portion of your customers ask for a waffle iron to go with the toaster. You have the opinion that your customers don't really want it or need it, so you stick to your toaster-only product.

Your customers leave and get their toaster waffle iron fix somewhere else.

So who needs who?
I'd say Blizz needs its customers a lot more than we need Blizz. Unless you're a 40 year old basement-dweller and your entire social life is WoW, then you're probably in this forum trying to bash the OP so you can keep living in your fantasy world.
11/06/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Älexandra
WE are the ones that should ultimately decide what they make.


No. God, no.

The playerbase doesn't know what they want.
11/06/2018 11:16 AMPosted by Snowfox
11/06/2018 11:15 AMPosted by Xeldra
...And some replies will come from Activision employees. Don't think for a minute they're not on top of their branding and "community engagement" programs.

Here comes the tinfoil..
Not at all. This is common practice among many large businesses. They have outreach programs that monitor and actively engage, sometimes without other people knowing it. If you don't understand that, that's your problem not mine.
11/06/2018 11:17 AMPosted by Jalen
11/06/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Älexandra
WE are the ones that should ultimately decide what they make.


No. God, no.

The playerbase doesn't know what they want.


I beg to differ. We may be conflicted on a lot of things, but when it comes down to it there are always a few things that we can all agree with. If not all, at least a good many of us.
Emtitles to... what?

Your speech is meaningless if you dont say what is Ok about what are you going to be entitled.
11/06/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Xeldra
11/06/2018 11:16 AMPosted by Snowfox
...
Here comes the tinfoil..
Not at all. This is common practice among many large businesses. They have outreach programs that monitor and actively engage, sometimes without other people knowing it. If you don't understand that, that's your problem not mine.

Well, then there must also be shills sent here to bash wow and Blizzard.

So, if you're going to assume one side is shills, it's fair for everyone to assume the other side is just paid trolls from Blizzards competitors.

Is that what's going on? Is that the nature of the world?
The word "entitled" is sorely abused.

Entitlement is an earned right. Period.
11/06/2018 11:10 AMPosted by Jamesfisk
11/06/2018 10:25 AMPosted by Mvura
In other words, players believe they're gods.
Ahem. We are the gods in the Blizz universe. Ever-spewing gods from which all good things flow, like stock prices and continued paychecks. Individually, we're pretty puny gods, collectively, we are mighty.

It's a mutually beneficial parasitic relationship. They present us with offerings of game content, we bless them with money. When the offerings are acceptable, we shower them with money, and bring in more gods for them to worship. When the offerings are sub-par, the gods go find other amusement and more productive worshippers.

Right now, Blizz is short multiple millions of gods who have left to find other worshippers.


But you're not gods. They don't present you with anything - they make things, you buy them. You're under this weird impression that Blizzard's hands move ... for you. They don't. You're not a client, you're a customer. They make, you buy - because you want what they make.

Your ego is tremendous; this is the point. You believe that Blizzard should do nothing but serve you. Any action that isn't in service of what you want is a catalyst for scorn.

Its shameful.
Who needs who?

We need the producers.

There is no 'customer' for something that isn't produced.

I for one don't buy for a second that Blizzard doesn't listen to their customers. In fact, I'll bet, based on their massive success in the industry, they are doing it better than their competitors.
11/06/2018 11:17 AMPosted by Jalen
No. God, no.

The playerbase doesn't know what they want.


they have to love a trained sheep like this.

it can roll over, do turns, and never question its master.

the human race is truly damned.
11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Onorlus
I'm seeing many people comment that a big problem with the Blizzard/player relationship is that the players feel "entitled".

I believe a majority of them do....And they should.

WE pay Blizzard. They work for us. They are autonomous but their income comes from the players. And in any relationship there will be some discord from time to time. The parties should be able to work through it for the relationship to continue.

However, both parties should be aware of their role....of their place.

Blizzard needs its players. Otherwise, they fold. Revenue plummets, stock values drop, investors bail.

The players do not need Blizzard. They have an abundance of options for their entertainment needs.

And because of that dynamic, the players are entitled.


Blizzard does not work for you. That is the myth. Your $15 doesn’t entitle you to anything but access to THEIR product and property. You have a choice to buy access or don’t buy it. They have been courteous enough to ask for “feedback” but they are not obligated to each and every demand. Period.
11/06/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Älexandra
the corporatist, consumerist mindset in this thread is sickening.

why anyone would ever bow and support a company in this way is beyond me. you're all truly deplorable and awful people.

op is right. we're the ones that put money in their bank account. WE are the ones that should ultimately decide what they make.


You realize your statement is also coporatist and consumerist? The fact that the only thing that matters is our $ is what causes this. !@#$ the environment, %^-* your employees and the only thing that matters is what brings in the $.

I assure you !@#$ like loot boxes doesn't feel any better than working for and achieving something (in a long term sense anyway, instant gratification be damned). Loot boxes bring in $ in basically every game though hence it's wide spread application across the industry.

We are our own worst enemy lol.

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