The "You're not entitled" myth...

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11/06/2018 11:19 AMPosted by Snowfox
11/06/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Xeldra
...Not at all. This is common practice among many large businesses. They have outreach programs that monitor and actively engage, sometimes without other people knowing it. If you don't understand that, that's your problem not mine.

Well, then there must also be shills sent here to bash wow and Blizzard.

So, if you're going to assume one side is shills, it's fair for everyone to assume the other side is just paid trolls from Blizzards competitors.

Is that what's going on? Is that the nature of the world?
Actually you're probably right on that. I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't competitors actively posting in these forums and others.
11/06/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Kentaurus
11/06/2018 11:17 AMPosted by Jalen
...

No. God, no.

The playerbase doesn't know what they want.


I beg to differ. We may be conflicted on a lot of things, but when it comes down to it there are always a few things that we can all agree with. If not all, at least a good many of us.


Sorry if this sounds rude but based on what metric? The GD Forums? Unless it comes from multiple platforms it's really not something I think decisions should be based on.

Only a very select few things I've heard that people want. And even then, people get called elitists by the casual playerbase.
11/06/2018 08:28 AMPosted by Tinúviel
This post reeks of the "customer is always right" mentality that, having worked in customer service, I loathe. You are not entitled to your own personal wishlist being granted to you from this company. You are entitled to what they promise you. If they say "We will release an expansion on August 14th" and they release it after August 14th, you have been wronged. The community is not a collective voice, and individuals disagree. Only when those opinions are made known and tracked as a whole can a company actually act on them.

LOL.

You sound incredibly entitled. You sound like you are working for a company that does not provide the service that they claim to sell, and are outraged that customers actually expect to get what they pay for, ie, entertainment in exchange for the dollars they spend from their entertainment budgets.

"The customer is always wrong, so screw them" isn't a business strategy that always succeeds in the real world. The insistence that every complaint is a "demand" is ridiculous. But barricaded in your offices like that, within your bubble, you can choose to watch Rome burn and pretend it's not you guys that lit the fire.
11/06/2018 11:20 AMPosted by Älexandra
11/06/2018 11:17 AMPosted by Jalen
No. God, no.

The playerbase doesn't know what they want.


they have to love a trained sheep like this.

it can roll over, do turns, and never question its master.

the human race is truly damned.


Oh? And you have examples on things that EVERYONE can agree needs to be in-game?
11/06/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Älexandra
the corporatist, consumerist mindset in this thread is sickening.

why anyone would ever bow and support a company in this way is beyond me. you're all truly deplorable and awful people.

op is right. we're the ones that put money in their bank account. WE are the ones that should ultimately decide what they make.


Why is it bowing to a company to accept the terms of the contract? If anything, your inability to distinguish yourself, your life, and the direction of your money from a corporation is indicative of what you just projected onto everyone else.

I pay them money, or I don't. I don't expect them to offer more than that and I'm certainly not entitled to it. Suggesting with such fury that you "put money in their bank account" (almost no money) and that somehow grants you carte blanche is a fantasy, nothing more.
11/06/2018 11:21 AMPosted by Jalen
11/06/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Kentaurus
...

I beg to differ. We may be conflicted on a lot of things, but when it comes down to it there are always a few things that we can all agree with. If not all, at least a good many of us.


Sorry if this sounds rude but based on what metric? The GD Forums? Unless it comes from multiple platforms it's really not something I think decisions should be based on.

Only a very select few things I've heard that people want. And even then, people get called elitists by the casual playerbase.


The forums can potentially provide some decent feedback, but you are right...from a numbers point of view. We are a minority. That doesn't make us irrelevant though.
11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Onorlus
I'm seeing many people comment that a big problem with the Blizzard/player relationship is that the players feel "entitled".

I believe a majority of them do....And they should.

WE pay Blizzard. They work for us. They are autonomous but their income comes from the players. And in any relationship there will be some discord from time to time. The parties should be able to work through it for the relationship to continue.

However, both parties should be aware of their role....of their place.

Blizzard needs its players. Otherwise, they fold. Revenue plummets, stock values drop, investors bail.

The players do not need Blizzard. They have an abundance of options for their entertainment needs.

And because of that dynamic, the players are entitled.
although i agree with your sentiment, sometimes players dont know what they want.

of course after saying that i will voice that there are alot ... and i mean alot of things the players want and have voiced that is the right thing. eg people giving feedback on the beta and neumorus other things and issues.
11/06/2018 11:20 AMPosted by Lugral
11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Onorlus
I'm seeing many people comment that a big problem with the Blizzard/player relationship is that the players feel "entitled".

I believe a majority of them do....And they should.

WE pay Blizzard. They work for us. They are autonomous but their income comes from the players. And in any relationship there will be some discord from time to time. The parties should be able to work through it for the relationship to continue.

However, both parties should be aware of their role....of their place.

Blizzard needs its players. Otherwise, they fold. Revenue plummets, stock values drop, investors bail.

The players do not need Blizzard. They have an abundance of options for their entertainment needs.

And because of that dynamic, the players are entitled.


Blizzard does not work for you. That is the myth. Your $15 doesn’t entitle you to anything but access to THEIR product and property. You have a choice to buy access or don’t buy it. They have been courteous enough to ask for “feedback” but they are not obligated to each and every demand. Period.
How does one have zero achievement points at level 20, which I assume is an alt for a higher level character? Hmm..
11/06/2018 09:46 AMPosted by Ziziana
The customer isn't always right, but when the forums and sub numbers say that they aren't happy with what you are doing it wouldn't be a bad idea to consider that they might be right.

The forums are a tiny pool in an ocean of information. But of course, Blizz should definitely pay more attention to that pool than the entire ocean...

And where are you getting your sub number information from? Do you have some inside knowledge of Blizz that no one else is privy to? People throw "sub numbers" around as though they actually have some insider knowledge when, in fact, they are talking out their patooty holes.

So... I'm going to venture to make a guess that you have zero clue what anyone other than yourself and your immediate "circle of friends" in the game think. Because I know for a fact that you have no clue if I'm happy, or if anyone on my friends list is happy, or if anyone I know is happy, or what the sub numbers actually are, or what Maryjomaje thinks, or what Billywarrior thinks, or what anyone thinks, knows, feels, other than... I'll say it again... YOU and people YOU deal directly with.

I'm certain that your issues are valid, and if you stated them in a constructive, concise, understandable way I truly commend you for that. But do not think you speak for everyone and do not think these forums denote the "majority of players".
The Eula states that you are entitled to access their game when they have it online. They also are entitled to not provide service or terminate it without liability.

That being said you do have some correct assumptions: without a player base they fold (given the current business model-that's also subject to change!)
They know that players aren't as satisfied this expac. They're subtle changing of stances on the gcd, going overboard on random loot, and other admissions during Blizzcon attests to that.
11/06/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Kentaurus
That doesn't make us irrelevant though.


Acting indignant and entitled is a great way to earn that status, however.
11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Onorlus
I'm seeing many people comment that a big problem with the Blizzard/player relationship is that the players feel "entitled".

I believe a majority of them do....And they should.

WE pay Blizzard. They work for us.
No they don't. Its not a political party, its an entertainment company. You pay Blizzard for the right to use their network and access their characters (Read the TOS, you don't own your own toon and at any point, Blizz can take it away.)
11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Onorlus
They are autonomous but their income comes from the players.
Ehhh, kinda sorta. At this point, I'd doubt WoW is Blizzard's biggest money maker. Its hard to tell though since we don't have the 3rd quarter financial results, largely because the quarter ended less than a week ago.

11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Onorlus
And in any relationship there will be some discord from time to time. The parties should be able to work through it for the relationship to continue.

However, both parties should be aware of their role....of their place.

Blizzard needs its players. Otherwise, they fold. Revenue plummets, stock values drop, investors bail.
See, here's the problem with this argument. The argument relies on Blizzard's side being the breadwinner for Activision Blizzard or for Activision Blizzard to be solely reliant on the video game sector they develop. They don't. They publish numerous games, have a film studio currently working on putting their IPs into TV and film format and even if the Blizzard side does go bellyup, their other games reach way more gamers and viewers.
11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Onorlus

The players do not need Blizzard. They have an abundance of options for their entertainment needs.

And because of that dynamic, the players are entitled.


The player has some power in determining the fate of the company if they act in one unified fashion (They both won't and can't.). They do not however have the right to make demands or threats to Blizzard as has been the norm for the last couple of months over any minor or major gripe.
11/06/2018 11:17 AMPosted by Jalen
11/06/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Älexandra
WE are the ones that should ultimately decide what they make.


No. God, no.

The playerbase doesn't know what they want.

Clearly we know a little better than blizzard does at the moment. Reskinning another company's product, putting it on a platform their playerbase isn't on, and attaching it to a beloved franchise instead of making it a new IP? Ignoring extensive feedback on WoW constantly from beta and beyond? Charging more for a worse blizzcon? There's a sickness at blizzard right now and players smell the rot.
11/06/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Kentaurus
11/06/2018 11:21 AMPosted by Jalen
...

Sorry if this sounds rude but based on what metric? The GD Forums? Unless it comes from multiple platforms it's really not something I think decisions should be based on.

Only a very select few things I've heard that people want. And even then, people get called elitists by the casual playerbase.


The forums can potentially provide some decent feedback, but you are right...from a numbers point of view. We are a minority. That doesn't make us irrelevant though.


Not at all! But like you said we are a minority. There's a massive amount of players that don't even really glance at the forums. Even more don't have a Twitter or Reddit.
11/06/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Älexandra
why anyone would ever bow and support a company in this way is beyond me. you're all truly deplorable and awful people.

[/quote]

Says the sucker still paying a subscription.
OR, at best, wasting away their time on something they dislike so much.

By all means, prance on off and come up with your very own game. I'd just LOVE to see what you produce.

Also, according to your logic. It is the consumer that dictates the end result?
So, what do you do for a living?
I'm going to go ahead and assume that it's not business owner, or game developer, even though I'm sure you know more than Blizzard does.
Is it sales?
Manufacturing?
Production?
Anything?
Cause no matter what it is, according to you, it should be what I say it is.
So get to it.
Dance, monkey. Dance.
11/06/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Kentaurus
It's a two way street.

It's almost like productive two-way communication is better here than threats, tantrums, and revolutionary sloganeering about who is dominant.
11/06/2018 11:26 AMPosted by Snowfox
11/06/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Kentaurus
It's a two way street.

It's almost like productive two-way communication is better here than threats, tantrums, and revolutionary sloganeering about who is dominant.


But...that's crazy talk! We can't have this sort of logical thinking around these parts.
11/06/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Kentaurus
It's a two way street.


It is, which is why customers need to do some self reflection.

I've watched it happen. Indie developers full of enthusiasm and excited about the joy they can bring to their players - berated, ceaselessly, by immature !@#$%^-s - eventually retreat. They're just like us with all of our sensitivities and hangups.

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