The "You're not entitled" myth...

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I am really annoyed Blizzard has yet to invite me to their board room or other decision making conferences.
11/06/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Raiyyn
11/06/2018 09:46 AMPosted by Ziziana
The customer isn't always right, but when the forums and sub numbers say that they aren't happy with what you are doing it wouldn't be a bad idea to consider that they might be right.

The forums are a tiny pool in an ocean of information. But of course, Blizz should definitely pay more attention to that pool than the entire ocean...

And where are you getting your sub number information from? Do you have some inside knowledge of Blizz that no one else is privy to? People throw "sub numbers" around as though they actually have some insider knowledge when, in fact, they are talking out their patooty holes.

So... I'm going to venture to make a guess that you have zero clue what anyone other than yourself and your immediate "circle of friends" in the game think. Because I know for a fact that you have no clue if I'm happy, or if anyone on my friends list is happy, or if anyone I know is happy, or what the sub numbers actually are, or what Maryjomaje thinks, or what Billywarrior thinks, or what anyone thinks, knows, feels, other than... I'll say it again... YOU and people YOU deal directly with.

I'm certain that your issues are valid, and if you stated them in a constructive, concise, understandable way I truly commend you for that. But do not think you speak for everyone and do not think these forums denote the "majority of players".
go look a little bit below this post and you will see where my concerns are. I am trying so hard to like this game.
11/06/2018 11:27 AMPosted by Akston
I am really annoyed Blizzard has yet to invite me to their board room or other decision making conferences.

Stand outside the door with two boxes full of donuts.

They'll wave you in. Guaranteed.
11/06/2018 11:28 AMPosted by Snowfox
11/06/2018 11:27 AMPosted by Akston
I am really annoyed Blizzard has yet to invite me to their board room or other decision making conferences.

Stand outside the door with two boxes full of donuts.

They'll wave you in. Guaranteed.


I know I would.
11/06/2018 11:13 AMPosted by Xeldra
I'm glad you no longer work in customer service.

I hope you only ever work customer service. You would understand the suffering caused to minimum wage overworked employees who are berated and abused by "always right" customers like the OP.
11/06/2018 11:28 AMPosted by Snowfox
11/06/2018 11:27 AMPosted by Akston
I am really annoyed Blizzard has yet to invite me to their board room or other decision making conferences.

Stand outside the door with two boxes full of donuts.

They'll wave you in. Guaranteed.


I tried that once.

I ate them all myself before reaching the door :(
11/06/2018 11:27 AMPosted by Mvura
11/06/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Kentaurus
It's a two way street.


It is, which is why customers need to do some self reflection.

I've watched it happen. Indie developers full of enthusiasm and excited about the joy they can bring to their players - berated, ceaselessly, by immature !@#$%^-s - eventually retreat. They're just like us with all of our sensitivities and hangups.


I've also seen indie developers who hold their fans in contempt and end up going under because they take every single criticism as a personal attack. If you insult your customers it's generally not going to go well for you.
11/06/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Ziziana
Clearly we know a little better than blizzard does at the moment. Reskinning another company's product, putting it on a platform their playerbase isn't on, and attaching it to a beloved franchise instead of making it a new IP? Ignoring extensive feedback on WoW constantly from beta and beyond? Charging more for a worse blizzcon? There's a sickness at blizzard right now and players smell the rot.


I was actually at Blizzcon and I can say for sure that it was far from the worse. Yes, the Diablo Immortal announcement blew but that's the problem with everyone. That's literally all you're focusing on and slamming Blizzard as a company for it. What the hell does Diablo have to do with WoW? And yes, the "Do you not have a phone" statement was out of place. But to base an entire Blizzcon on one person saying something that people didn't like its flat out stupid.

And if you're referring to WC3 being the reskin, then actually I'm excited about Warcraft 3 being remade. I've never played it and this gives me an opportunity to see a fresh WoW RTS game. Also consider this, if Warcraft 3 Reforged is super successful, don't you think Blizz would see an open opportunity to make a Warcraft 4?

The upcoming patches actually addresses a lot of issues that people have had with the BFA launch. We gotta stop putting our hands over our ears and saying "LA LA LA NO BUT THIS THING LA LA LA" when they're actually listening to us and making changes for the better.

Finally we're getting our vendors back in the game. Azerite gear acquisition is now in our hands. No more RNG rewards from Island Expeditions. More abilities are getting removed from the GCD. The Warfront is going to have a hardmode that seems to allow premades, guilds, and communities to queue for. Warmode incentives for the losing faction.

Things like this were things we had to wait entire expansions for them to change. Stop living in the past and start trying to create a better future. They're making changes and hopefully sticking to them.
There are two extremes of people here. One who demands everything they want fulfilled and one who spreads their legs wide open.
I'll just respond to all those lamest of lame excuse posts claiming Blizzard couldn't possibly have know what customers want because GD isn't a hivemind where 100% of posters agree on everything at all times.

There's a thing called marketing research. Responsible companies utilize it to find out what their customers want or will find acceptable. Clearly they have never used this tool which is readily available to them.

For a company to make so many costly mistakes because they failed to exercise even the most minimal due diligence is breathtaking, as are the large number of posters who have clearly been sent to the forums to make the claim that doing what customers are known not to want is a good business practice.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic that devs apparently still think astroturfing the forums will solve the problems they created.
11/06/2018 11:37 AMPosted by Sunfaller
There are two extremes of people here. One who demands everything they want fulfilled and one who spreads their legs wide open.

Sure, 1% on one side, 1% on the other side.

.. and 98% of people in the middle with more sane views.
There was a portion of a Forbes article on this very topic concerning the Diablo Immortal announcement that is relevant.

Yes, as paying consumers who are continually promised steak for our investments and given broccoli in it's stead we are entitled to be mad and hold said developer accountable.

Bungie got it, and had turned around D2 thanks to listening. Blizzard and Ion refuse to with WoW and now they've done it again making their keynote announcement a Mobile game that no one asked for.

Say what you want about them saying it's not a reskin or another Netease game but they're pulling so heavily from other Netease games that it's walks, quacks, and farts exactly the same.

This Blizzcon was a failure by and large and an about face to the customers that make Blizzard a profit.
11/06/2018 11:27 AMPosted by Akston
I am really annoyed Blizzard has yet to invite me to their board room or other decision making conferences.


They should definitely invite players to their conferences!

If I was there I could have saved them millions of dollars by helping them avoid disastrous decisions!!
11/06/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Tinúviel
11/06/2018 11:13 AMPosted by Xeldra
I'm glad you no longer work in customer service.

I hope you only ever work customer service. You would understand the suffering caused to minimum wage overworked employees who are berated and abused by "always right" customers like the OP.


As someone who has worked at customer service at Wal-Mart, I find your posts funny cause the amount of BS you're posting. You have limited "rules" where you can say "yea the customer isn't always right", like when someone tries to return an item from Target to Wal-Mart. A good majority of the time though they are right and they fall under the guide lines set by said company. So that box of cereal that had a nail in it, yea you're gonna have to return them that $3.99.

I've seen my share of **** as a CS worker, I've stopped knife fights, seen god only knows how many druggies, credit card thieves, shop lifters who tried to play you're racists card while trying to steal a 60 inch tv. I can tell you if any Blizzard CS rep saw any of that they would probably cry, luckily they don't deal with trash on a daily bases, also Blizzard devs/CSR's make about 40k-50k a year more than your typical CSR worker so my sympathy towards anyone making 50k a year and saying how hard they have it is just laughable.

As for the whole entitlement stuff like the Diablo fiasco, I've been playing Diablo since 2003, probably longer than most devs who have been working at Blizzard. Should I be getting what I want? no not really but it's pretty easy to know what people want and are willing to spend money on, which certainly wasn't a Diablo mobile game. Oh and I've also worked as a manager too, I'm not gonna put up a display of chocolate chip cookies in my hardware department.
11/06/2018 11:39 AMPosted by Stohliak
There was a portion of a Forbes article on this very topic concerning the Diablo Immortal announcement that is relevant.

Yes, as paying consumers who are continually promised steak for our investments and given broccoli in it's stead we are entitled to be mad and hold said developer accountable.

Bungie got it, and had turned around D2 thanks to listening. Blizzard and Ion refuse to with WoW and now they've done it again making their keynote announcement a Mobile game that no one asked for.

Say what you want about them saying it's not a reskin or another Netease game but they're pulling so heavily from other Netease games that it's walks, quacks, and farts exactly the same.

This Blizzcon was a failure by and large and an about face to the customers that make Blizzard a profit.


Then you got the youtube dislike conspiracy, Activisions stock going down almost 6% yesterday, not inc what happened when the gen forums "went down" after the sub "leak" and they started to delete topics

At this point in time Blizzard is going full EA mode.
11/06/2018 08:28 AMPosted by Tinúviel
This post reeks of the "customer is always right" mentality that, having worked in customer service, I loathe. You are not entitled to your own personal wishlist being granted to you from this company. You are entitled to what they promise you. If they say "We will release an expansion on August 14th" and they release it after August 14th, you have been wronged. The community is not a collective voice, and individuals disagree. Only when those opinions are made known and tracked as a whole can a company actually act on them.

11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Onorlus
WE pay Blizzard. They work for us.

No. No they don't. The customer is not always right. You have absolutely no creative control over Blizzard content, that's what they pay game developers for. Your role is to play the games and offer feedback, and if they don't make their games to your liking, you stop paying for them.


You're misplacing "the customer is always right".

At any rate, the players are the life blood of the game and it's corporate entity...if ENOUGH of the players complain, it behooves the company to listen.

Now, part of the problem I see with blizz at the moment? "You don't know what you want, but we do" attitude from it's current HORRIBLY BAD dev team.

The only thing I feel ENTITLED to is to complain about their CRAPPY decisions.

And *I* will, regardless of whether you, or anyone else, likes it.

Blizzard has made MANY errors over the last few years...and it's starting to catch up to it. Funny how most of them took place after Acticrap became involved.
11/06/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Mvura
It comes from being on the receiving end of entitled people.

Neil Gaiman on Entitlement Issues:
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

In this article he talks to a fan who is upset that GRR was lagging on releasing the final book of the Song of Fire and Ice series.


Great post, good insight and particularly relevant here on GD.
11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Onorlus


The players do not need Blizzard. They have an abundance of options for their entertainment needs.


If you have so many options or other games, I don't see anyone using them. This is not your game, it is their game. You play on their terms.
11/06/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Onorlus
I'm seeing many people comment that a big problem with the Blizzard/player relationship is that the players feel "entitled".

I believe a majority of them do....And they should.

WE pay Blizzard. They work for us. They are autonomous but their income comes from the players. And in any relationship there will be some discord from time to time. The parties should be able to work through it for the relationship to continue.

However, both parties should be aware of their role....of their place.

Blizzard needs its players. Otherwise, they fold. Revenue plummets, stock values drop, investors bail.

The players do not need Blizzard. They have an abundance of options for their entertainment needs.

Welcome to the absolute height of consumerism - where people simply consuming something means they're somehow deserving of accolade, and creators / producers are beholden to them. The painter who's devoted his life to perfecting his craft is simply a disregarded host for the entertainment "needs" of the esteemed onlooker who has gained all authority and praise for having a) eyeballs and b) a coin in their pocket... and that there is the key, the coin. That is our god and guide, that those who hold the coin (you) be the final entity worshiped, and may those who hold the brush forever please them.

If the coinholding consumer catches whiff that he is not the sole priority of his pact-bound producer, he will lash out against them for exercising their false notions of freedom... much like a user suffering withdrawals in the absence of their dealer. The coinholder has long suffered the thought that his existence was important, that identifying himself as such meant he mattered... but just as new coins are minted daily, so too are souls. As the markets of consumerism grew, the value of the individual coin lessened in the eyes of the producers... and so too the individuals who held them, for there would be new coins and new coinholders at every turn.

In reality, the only producers who failed to whether the age of consumerism were the ones who made the mistake of listening to the coinholder: that they should never change and continue to do as they were asked... for doing so stunted their evolution and suffocated their creativity. Those new souls felt no attraction to their old, tired creations and found producers who had the ambition to not be bound by the threats of those who deemed themselves gods.
Your problem is to think that this company is just a bunch of suits.

Yes, they're in it for the money, but they're not a bowling alley. They're artists. They create worlds, characters, stories. And just like any artist sometimes they will do what feels right to THEM. Shocking, I know.

We have the choice to go somewhere where our needs are catered to. Blizzard does not work for us.

We love what they created, which is why we pay them to create more. If at some point they create something we don't like, we don't have to pay them. We already received our money's worth.

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