The Reality of Raider.IO

General Discussion
Raider IO sucks I just form my groups to avoid it and make sure people have really high item levels works most of the time even if I am stuck having to carry the group most of the time.

It can be hard but adds to the challange ......

Raider IO is useless for me I am on a high population server so all the spots are always filled up before I can get them I did use raider IO for a short while it was useless garbage to me... You need to be top Pro Competitve player to get spot in it.

if they want to solve that remove the cap or expand it to like 1,000 or higher.

Overall I dont use it I just rely on Item level and quite often carrying the group or being one the one that stops it from wiping since I am invested in my keys.
11/10/2018 11:16 AMPosted by Locgar
11/10/2018 10:51 AMPosted by Desdinova
...

You sound toxic. You should be banned. No, seriously. You seem like the type who has a chip on their shoulder because there are better players than you. Find a guild and you dont have to worry about it.


no you sound toxic.....nanananana im rubber and your glue what ever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.


No.

YOU sound toxic. Infinity.
11/10/2018 02:34 PMPosted by Shadina
WoW's meant to be, as you say here, competitive.


That's BS! upper levels of content? sure.

11/10/2018 02:34 PMPosted by Shadina
I'm sure this is gonna make me come off rude, but do the casual puggers need much in the way of actual progression if all they're doing is casual world content and such? There's no reason to give them anything more than lottery titanforge chances when they do nothing requiring actual good gear in the first place.


titan/warforge needs to be scrapped.

Dungeons used to be a core source of group content throughout WoW's history. But its failed a certain segment of players/player type this expansion.

Here's what used to happen.

You level up, you queue up some dungeons to start gearing. Then you do heroic dungeons for progression before/in between raiding. Devs didn't want you geared out in a day, so they put a daily lockout on them. It was fun, and I met most people that way.

Then you do the same with alts.

It started to change though, and heroics took the place of normals. So you'd have one round of "dungeon tier" worth of gear to get.

Now? its completely gone, replaced by World Quests and Warfronts, and manual dog eat dog group creation.

I don't think anyone is looking for top level gear to do their world content. They just like dungeon running that offers some rewards.
11/10/2018 01:04 PMPosted by Forgebrew
Honestly I just don't like M+. I don't like the way people force themselves to play or interact with others under the pressure of a timer. It certainly is better in a (friendly) guild, but overall I find that it still detracts from the sense of fun I get from doing other content, up to and including raids.

I wish they'd scrap that crap and go back to normal and heroic modes. Or at least come up with a version of it that scraps the timer aspect.

Totally understandable if you don't like M+, I respect that. There are plenty of things to do in game that I don't like but just because I don't like doing them it doesn't mean they should be removed, normal and heroic modes still exist, M+ is just the next level for people who want a higher challenge.

I've been doing a lot of M+ in BFA but didn't really cared for it in Legion but since I wanted to Raid Mythic I was just doing my weekly +10 or +15 which if you are in a Raiding guild chances are you can find people to run with within the guild, I honestly don't think it's too much to ask for someone doing Mythic Raiding to require one +10 for the week, and nothing else really requires it.

11/10/2018 01:04 PMPosted by Forgebrew
Would be great if they'd stop discounting heroic. Change mechanics, add phases to the fights, have multiple versions of the fight that rotate daily/weekly. Do whatever needs to be done to beef it up to a the point where its well beyond normal mode and the final stepping stone before raiding. Like it was originally meant to be.

That's indeed a nice idea for Heroic to add some flavor to it, players that don't like the pressure of trying to beat a timer and/or doing M+ could enjoy it, I'd love for them to have that option, however, that's not an argument for removing M+, if you don't like M+ just don't do it.

You can overgear Heroic / M0 really quickly and while it may be original if they keep introducing different mechanics you are still going to overgear it. M+ is not meant to be a step below raiding, it's supposed to be a parallel/alternative and at a similar difficulty level you never overgear M+ you just keep pushing higher and you can always get to a level where you'll find it challenging.
11/10/2018 11:11 AMPosted by Shadina
11/10/2018 11:09 AMPosted by Zhamoza
...

You don’t understand, taking anyone other than ME to a m+ is toxic. Because I want to go. And you’re hateful if you don’t carry me. It’s vile to not invite the first person to sign up for the group


Sad thing is this is how some people really think. Rather than find like minded people, they'll come here and spew this kind of nonsense.


Its the natural progression from the gear score/ilvl/achievements/aotc requirements. As pugging got more popular in WoW, people needed a way to filter. Don't understand why people need to filter? Lead enough runs where you don't. The only way to remove any exclusion is to remove a need to exclude people... I don't know why this is all such a hard concept for people to grasp.
11/10/2018 10:43 AMPosted by Locgar
raider io is meant to keep people down its also killing m+,m+ groups are going to get so toxic and will shun people even with high score.

raider io needs to be banned.
Raider.io killed my parents.
In general I don't think raider.io is a good thing. The toxicity can be really bad. I do see that filtering out bad players vs good players can be helpful but, again its the toxicity that it can incite. I don't know tbh I am really on the fence about raider.io. It has good and bad things to it.
What did people do before this raider io thingy existed?
11/10/2018 04:38 PMPosted by Elean
What did people do before this raider io thingy existed?
Look for players with the highest ilvl.
I don't mind IO, I use it, and I don't mind doing the lower keys to build my score up. But essentially what you've said is, "I have my on demand mythic buddies so I don't even need to use IO, quit crying about IO".

Not everyone is able to build a mythics friends group, for a variety of reasons. And the pug life is a hard life.
Not really a surprise that after many years of degrading performance measures people have a massive knee jerk when they run into one as cut and dry as IO.

If I sign up for a pug and get denied because I don't have the proper IO, that's on me. That simple. People should have the right not to take me and we should have transparency that IO provides.
11/10/2018 04:38 PMPosted by Voltagebaus
11/10/2018 04:38 PMPosted by Elean
What did people do before this raider io thingy existed?
Look for players with the highest ilvl.

Without Raider.io the following things would happen:

1) There will be only two factors for picking a player:
  • Item level - While current system based on io score is not perfect, item level is far worse. with the current system you might miss out on some great players with lower scores, but a player with good score is almost 100% guarantee he knows what he's doing (and before people come and say you can 'buy' your io score, come on I have yet to find one single person doing it and it would be incredibly easy to spot in their profile)
  • Class - Only overpowered classes/specs would be picked, if you think it's bad now it would be a lot worse with no way for a player with a weaker spec to work his way up and get a high score that grants him consideration.


2) Pug groups that are struggling at lower-mid tier keys would still be struggling, perhaps even more.

3) It would be impossible to form a pug group with a decent chance of success at higher keys, item level is such a terrible indicator of how the player is gonna perform in the dungeon.

4) Only people who would actually benefit would players from the OP classes that have decent item level and little experience in the dungeons (hence they have a low io score) since they would consistently get picked and carried by guild groups looking to fill that one extra spot. (Good or experieced players from those classes are having an easy time to get into keys already so no change for them). I recently ran some Keys with a Prot Warrior, which are definitely underpowered, but the guy had 1.4k io score (and was ofc a very good player with a lot of experience/knowledge of the dungeons), the runs went super smooth, if it wasn't for Raider.io he would never get into groups and they would just take whatever Blood DK they can find no matter how bad of a player he might actually be.
You remove Raider IO, we will use wow progress, you remove that and we will use something else, WoW logs also has m+ ranking and none will remove those ever.

Raider IO is not the problem.

I play 4 healing classes and I never linked my account. On all of them I got 1.2k+ score, starting from low keys and climbing up my way. On this may I make friends and with them run dungeons. Be social and be a good player, and the score will come.
raider will kill m+ well before the year is out.m+ is dying fast as it is.

i cant wait for m+ to eat it self with their io score.
11/10/2018 11:12 AMPosted by Poisonberry
According to Socialwowscore.com, you only have a score a 25.4.

I'm not gonna listen to you.


And that's how the worst examples are like (from what I've seen).

I don't blame Raider.IO. I blame some players being jerks.

I get it, you don't want that precious key to go to waste, but there's that and then there's being a sore loser.
11/10/2018 10:43 AMPosted by Locgar
raider io is meant to keep people down


This is absurd. As if it was invented and is used to "keep people down".

No one cares about keeping people down. They either want you to do it or are indifferent to what you do.

No ones staying up at night worrying that the people they are trying to keep down might be able to get themselves together and do a +10 mythic.
11/10/2018 10:43 AMPosted by Locgar
raider io is meant to keep people down its also killing m+,m+ groups are going to get so toxic and will shun people even with high score.

raider io needs to be banned.


I'd say the toxicity of the M+ community is more to do with the highly stressful design and nature of the M+ dungeons themselves. I guess some people get a buzz out of that and more power to them I suppose. To me, it seems like working a horrible, unpaid job getting yelled at by random man-children while being ground down by a strict yet arbitrary time limit.

The problem IMO with Raider.io is that it is a third party site that dictates massive control and influence over the PvE community while not being subject to any verification or regulation. I doubt Blizzard will allow it's existence much longer if it continues to hold such control over the player-base without any form of official scrutiny.
11/10/2018 04:38 PMPosted by Voltagebaus
... Look for players with the highest ilvl.

Without Raider.io the following things would happen:

1) There will be only two factors for picking a player:
  • Item level - While current system based on io score is not perfect, item level is far worse
  • Class - Only overpowered classes/specs would be picked, if you think it's bad now it would be a lot worse with no way for a player with a weaker spec to work his way up and get a high score that grants him consideration.


2) Pug groups that are struggling at lower-mid tier keys would still be struggling, perhaps even more.

3) It would be impossible to form a pug group with a decent chance of success at higher keys, item level is such a terrible indicator of how the player is gonna perform in the dungeon.

4) Only people who would actually benefit would players from the OP classes that have decent item level and little experience in the dungeons (hence they have a low io score) since they would consistently get picked and carried by guild groups looking to fill that one extra spot. (Good or experieced players from those classes are having an easy time to get into keys already so no change for them). I recently ran some Keys with a Prot Warrior, which are definitely underpowered, but the guy had 1.4k io score (and was ofc a very good player with a lot of experience/knowledge of the dungeons), the runs went super smooth, if it wasn't for Raider.io he would never get into groups and they would just take whatever Blood DK they can find no matter how bad of a player he might actually be.


Bearing in mind I don't use or have experience with raider.io and don't do much of the sort of content that might require it, so my thoughts are purely on the responses I've seen on posts like this.

Would it be true to say that the purpose of this thing seems to be to give those who are forming groups and idea of how good players are on a particular character? Rather than simply how much high level gear they have (which nowadays can be obtained by means other than just raiding etc)?

If so, in a way it seems a reasonable thing to use. Ultimately we all want to win at whatever we do. That's an understandable desire. So if it is so, I do get why it would be a popular filtering method. Sure it would be depressing to not be able to get into groups because of it, but I'm not sure what the alternative is.
Agreed. Once I started doing keystone runs with friends and guildies I never had to worry about raiderio ever again. It is, however, a godsend for when you have to pug.

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