Paladin's will be the bottom in 8.1

Paladin
Ret is very good with ST damage, and when there is low movement.

New raid is very heavy in movement, council fights and add fights. plus the buffs other classes are getting will push Ret to the bottom easily.

Holy will have the same issue. With Holy Mastery being a joke, and the largness of spread fights in the new raid... lul... rip holy

prot is still prot.
Ret is already at the bottom. I guess we'll go into the sub-basement in 8.1.
Its enough to make me want to just unsub till we're at least mid tier, but that probably won't happen for... 6+mo if ever this expac since Blizz tends to hate ret.
But you're getting new pretty animations...
Already there bro. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#

And as for being "very good ST damage".. unfortunately no. Middle of pack in an ideal scenario which pretty much never even exists in raids. Closest things to ST fights in Uldir ret is not even close to the top, in fact, ret is not even above middle on a single fight in Mythic Uldir lol. Go look for yourself.

So you get terrible mobility, one of the worst cleave/AoE in the game as a trade for middle of the pack ST at best if it's some target dummy that never moves, aka no raid bosses these days. Great trade off Blizz.

Meanwhile, specs like Havoc/Arms/Frost etc beat Ret in ST... and ridiculously more aoe/cleave damage while doing full or almost full ST damage at the same time. Ret has to sacrifice 50% of their ST damage (TV), to do bottom of the barrel AoE because blizz thought it was a good idea to have their only non talent AoE be an AoE holy power finisher that hits like a wet noodle. It's a complete joke. Look at zul logs for a good laugh.

Rets utility isn't even good anymore, slightly buff one healers mana and a pretty useless kings for yourself or a tank.. hurray. Meanwhile a spec like Havoc has darkness, 5% magic dmg for whole raid, a purge and an aoe stun on top of infinite mobiilty, amazing AoE, great ST and tons of passive self healing. Fair stuff. No one wants ret in mythic+ either cause of garbo AoE.
Been playing since Vanilla, Ret all the way.

For some reason Blizz does the same thing every time. They use Ret as a benchmark for all of the other classes. As long as a class can perform at least this well, then everything is fine. If a class is performing far and above, then that class needs to be tweaked, but ret is still just fine where it is.

Sometimes, Ret enjoys a short-lived place at the top, which really has as much to do with having to work twice as hard for an entire expansion to hold a spot and suddenly having the handicap removed as it does any actual buffs.

Other times, well, it's this. Ret has such a bad reputation on live right now that only the most amateur groups will accept ret for heroic raids, M+, or Rated PVP matches. If a ret ever makes a mistake, they are kicked, while I've watched hunters fall asleep at a base and lose a flag 3 times in a single match without making a callout and the ret still gets kicked from the group for not being able to disengage from a fight and mount up.

Blizz, pick up the ball. Stop dropping the ball. Blizz, it's time to fix ret.
Already at the bottom. Only direction to go is up, right?
Ret has had so many things stripped away that there's really not anything left they can take. If they decide to do a radical swap or change, it might accidentally improve the spec.
10/26/2018 02:48 AMPosted by Risky
Ret has had so many things stripped away that there's really not anything left they can take. If they decide to do a radical swap or change, it might accidentally improve the spec.


well, were looking at % nerfs right with no mechanical change..

so unless we scale like a boss (we usually scale well) then we are doomed. And we'd already have an idea of scaling and it's not competitive.
2x Divine right azerite traits with dp+BoJ+zeal makes a pretty good aoe build.

The last thing we need is a dp nerf, in fact we need a dp buff. DP is the only thing making this spec moderately fun atm.

The new empyrean trait isn’t going to make much difference at 2 procs/min and the buff to divine storm is going to make it zero sum with the dp nerf. Things look fckin bleak.
I'll never stop playing ret. But it does annoy me when people complain about ret needing nerfs when we're at the bottom of the totem poll, M + doesn't want us, raiding takes us simply for wisdom. I feel like ret does play well, but we can't compete with other classes as far as the meta is concerned.
Agreed. Holy paladins are simply too weak as well
10/25/2018 11:46 AMPosted by Honsu
Its enough to make me want to just unsub till we're at least mid tier, but that probably won't happen for... 6+mo if ever this expac since Blizz tends to hate ret.


Oddly enough, I have that mentality too, which is a first for an expansion. The more practical option is to have an alt to switch to so I can remain relevant in any meta (pvp,raids, +’s).

But it’s not that they hate ret, there were higher priorities and I still think that. I’d rather see ele, enhance, spriest, and feral get the buffs and tweaks that make the class viable, enjoyable, and balanced. ret didn’t need it at the time, and, albeit not a popular opinion, doesn’t still as much as the other specs. I say that knowing where ret stands on mythic fetid (where our niche should dominate). Does it need support? Absolutely. Just so long as it’s Implemented in a well thought-out way and not just generic %buff to crusader strike, etc. until there’s a blue post or some indication that what the other aforementioned specs are getting ret will also receive, I’ll gladly maintain this character. But until that happens, I’ll play another class where they fit that viability, enjoyment, and balancing
Add back in the legion divine storm, new gap closer. Ret fixed for ever.
ret is always mid pack because its by far the easiest class/spec to play
10/27/2018 05:54 AMPosted by Biophage
ret is always mid pack because its by far the easiest class/spec to play


BM hunter would like to have a chat with you.
10/27/2018 05:54 AMPosted by Biophage
ret is always mid pack because its by far the easiest class/spec to play


Right now it is not. The Rotation is not as simple as "push X when it's available". Some mechanics in Uldir require pre-positioning as we don't have the mobility to deal with them should something go wrong.

There's also the fact no class in WoW is hard to play. The idea that any class is the easiest when every class has been gutted down to 3-5 buttons is a silly idea.
10/27/2018 05:54 AMPosted by Biophage
ret is always mid pack because its by far the easiest class/spec to play


I like this guy. Definitely easier, sure. Nowhere midpack levels though. Not sure how you got to that conclusion but it worries me.


Right now it is not. The Rotation is not as simple as "push X when it's available". Some mechanics in Uldir require being pre-positioning as we don't have the mobility to deal with them should something go wrong.

There's also the fact no class in WoW is hard to play. The idea that any class is the easiest when every class has been gutted down to 3-5 buttons is a silly idea.


Wtf? That’s every melee spec. The mobility should be the least of your concerns when arguing why ret is in an awful position.
10/27/2018 05:54 AMPosted by Biophage
ret is always mid pack because its by far the easiest class/spec to play


Uh no. Havoc is far easier. Literally same mindless 3 button rotation AoE and ST. Not to mention infinite mobility so get far less !@#$ed by mechanics requiring a lot of movement. Both warrior specs are easier or equal.. mostly press buttons on cooldown. MM with Steady Aim is far easier, 3 buttons again. etc. Many specs are super dumbed down and easy to play now. Ret actually has more buttons to press and things to track then like half the specs out there now if you take HoW and Inquisition.
10/27/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Dízzý

Wtf? That’s every melee spec. The mobility should be the least of your concerns when arguing why ret is in an awful position.


..what?

First off, I'm not arguing why Ret is in an awful position in that post. I'm responding to the person I quoted. That's how forums work.

Second. WHAT!? You think all melee don't have mobility tools that allow them to reposition on the fly? What are you smoking? Ret's only ability lasts 3 seconds and is on the GCD so good luck. I'm not going to sit here and list every other class's mobility but wow. Not sure if trollin'.

10/27/2018 10:38 AMPosted by Mangohunter
10/27/2018 05:54 AMPosted by Biophage
ret is always mid pack because its by far the easiest class/spec to play


Uh no. Havoc is far easier. Literally same mindless 3 button rotation AoE and ST. Not to mention infinite mobility so get far less !@#$ed by mechanics requiring a lot of movement. Both warrior specs are easier or equal.. mostly press buttons on cooldown. MM with Steady Aim is far easier, 3 buttons again. etc. Many specs are super dumbed down and easy to play now. Ret actually has more buttons to press and things to track then like half the specs out there now if you take HoW and Inquisition.


This guy right here gets it.

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