Where is the communication Ion?

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
It has been asked over and over and your reply is that you are always looking into improving it. Many of the different class forums are devoid of any blue posts. We have no way of actually talking to the devs and getting their insight on their changes that they have in mind. Also this would be greatly appreciated to know that they are reading it and replying to player feedback. Communication between the devs and the players are only one sided. We have no idea about ideas on how they intend to improve and implement changes to classes. It feels like giving feedback is just going into a void and being forgotten.
lol....we got you on the radar, now wait to next expansion! an you wonder why people are getting angry. Now i spend more time complaining in the forums than playing the actual game, sad.
Blizzard always says they want to improve communication but acts like it's an insurmountable problem that befuddles the best minds in the industry. It's actually rather simple. Developers or CMs could, you know, make posts on the official company forums. Crazy, right?

I work for a Fortune 500 company, and they do not plan things on a day by day basis. Product development is planned months, years, ahead of time. We are also well aware of active complaints regarding our products currently in the field, and while quick fixes are certainly not always feasible, there are always teams working on these issues.

Having said that, there is no way that Blizzard is unaware of spec-specific issues and complaints across all manners of endgame content. I play for fun so I only play the most casual of content, where something like ret paladin is certainly competitive, but I can access logs and discussions pointing out ret's crappy performance in raids, for example. Just from world quests, I know their aoe and lack of cleave sucks. Downtime in the rotation is atrocious, particularly without high haste. If I know that, Blizzard knows that.

There is also no way that Blizzard does not have thoughts and plans in the works for these issues. So to take ret's downtime and lack of cleave as an example, Blizzard is well aware of the gigantic gaps in the rotation and they know that most don't consider it fun. They know that lack of cleave holds ret back in certain (all?) higher end content. They hold opinions and plans on those issues right now, but they don't communicate a thing to their customers.

Given that it would take five minutes to ask ret developers their thoughts on ret downtime and lack of cleave, and given that it would take only a few more minutes to post those thoughts on the forum, it seems that the only logical explanation for their struggle with communication has nothing to do with actual difficulty (because it's not, at all) and has nothing to do with not having any ideas (they do), but rather that they know their response will not be well-received. Those designs are either intended, or they simply have no idea what to do about those issues.

But even then, they could enact damage control through further communication. Rather than just ignoring overwhelmingly negative feedback and leaving rets wondering what the hell is going on, they could make one post. "Yes we know the downtime and lack of cleave are not enjoyable for many, but here was our thinking as to why we designed it as such, the players we had in mind for this, the roles and situations we wanted ret to excel in, etc."

If the players actually know what the developers intended with ret, rather than constantly fighting them and trying to force them into a direction they may not desire in their overall design philosophy, then the most knowledgeable and respected ret players across all modes of content could then offer feedback and ideas for how Blizzard could tweak talents or Azerite traits to help them maintain their vision, but perhaps in a more overall enjoyable way.

But so long as Blizzard keeps pretending that it's just so, so difficult to communicate, then they are going to keep having these same problems with their paying customers, over and over again. Such an easily avoidable problem.
10/31/2018 02:54 PMPosted by Jacquio
rather that they know their response will not be well-received. Those designs are either intended, or they simply have no idea what to do about those issues.


You're missing a third option: that they honestly and truly do not care. Their goal is to maximize revenue. When player enjoyment collides with player retention systems, like the innumerable hamster wheels of BfA, their best move from a revenue perspective is to maximize player retention. So long as player frustration doesn't cause more sub losses than the retention mechanisms prevent the loss off, that's a winning bargain. And their lack of communication is because they can't honestly express that sentiment, or the mass of players hanging around hoping for change would realize it's a false hope and actually quit.

So they stay silent, and when they do communicate, it's through carefully scripted posts and carefully curated Q&A sessions, and they give just enough vague hints to keep people hoping while they double down on those retention systems. But the honest truth is, the development pattern is the way it is because the developers, or at least the ones making the overall decisions, don't care if you enjoy the game, as long as you keep logging in and playing it. Player engagement and active users are the only things that matter to them anymore. You, I, and every other player of this game are just numbers on a stockholder report to them.
10/31/2018 05:00 PMPosted by Xaedys


You're missing a third option: that they honestly and truly do not care.


I'm choosing to believe that the developers want their customers to be happy. While that belief is difficult to maintain in the face of multiple recent design decisions, again that goes back to my initial point - they don't share their vision with us, so all we have is speculation.

Player engagement and active users increase if the game is better, and the best players have excellent ideas on how to improve their classes. Their feedback would be further improved and focused if Blizzard would quit pretending sharing ideas is so difficult, and just do it.

Your third option is certainly a valid possibility, particularly in light of Blizzard choosing to invest zero effort in communication, but I would just like to believe it's not the case. I've invested too much in this game.
10/31/2018 05:34 PMPosted by Jacquio
I'm choosing to believe that the developers want their customers to be happy.


Oh, I'm certain many of the line members of the development team care and want their customers to be happy. It's the leadership that doesn't care anymore. Whether that's that they've simply become jaded, or that they are headed by a former lawyer, or if there's pressure from even higher up to focus on revenue and player active time, I'm not sure. But it's abundantly clear that from a leadership level they are far more interested in maximizing our play time and subscription time than they are in making sure we actually really enjoy playing the game.

10/31/2018 05:34 PMPosted by Jacquio
I would just like to believe it's not the case.


So would I. I really would. But after they went the whole of Legion with the feedback we gave on the artifacts and legendaries and crucible and class design, and after all the class feedback in alpha and beta, the end result is this. We have an Azerite system that's basically the worst parts of the legendary, artifact, and crucible systems, all mixed together and watered down to the point where it feels unrewarding even at those rare times it should feel rewarding. We have a half dozen specs that still feel like they are in early alpha, and only half of them got looked at for 8.1 despite the months between the development freeze/balancing push near the end of Beta and now. And even the ones that got looked at for 8.1 feel...neglected.

I'm having trouble finding any other explanation than simple abject apathy.
That was just lip service to get people to buy BFA. He didn't actually mean it.
It’s been years of telling us they’re going to improve communication with us and not following through. It’s sad that things are falling out this way. Whatever the real reason is, it’s doing both them and us a disservice to continue the lack of communication. We want to hear from you, and we also want to be heard, please.
10/31/2018 05:34 PMPosted by Jacquio
10/31/2018 05:00 PMPosted by Xaedys


You're missing a third option: that they honestly and truly do not care.


I'm choosing to believe that the developers want their customers to be happy. While that belief is difficult to maintain in the face of multiple recent design decisions, again that goes back to my initial point - they don't share their vision with us, so all we have is speculation.

Player engagement and active users increase if the game is better, and the best players have excellent ideas on how to improve their classes. Their feedback would be further improved and focused if Blizzard would quit pretending sharing ideas is so difficult, and just do it.

Your third option is certainly a valid possibility, particularly in light of Blizzard choosing to invest zero effort in communication, but I would just like to believe it's not the case. I've invested too much in this game.


BZZZZZZZZZZZZT Wrong. They don't care. Here's why.

The Devs care about one thing and one thing only. Their paycheck. JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS WORLD.

Given that, they will only do what gets them that paycheck, and continues to provide it in the future. Nothing more, nothing less. Anything less, loses the paycheck, anything more is wasted effort.

Now look at where that state lives.

Does their personal performance, their dedication to the community and the playerbase provide said paycheck? No. No it does not. Activision couldn't give a single sloppy f word about any of that. They care about profits, that's it. Do they make money on this IP.

What makes money? Selling expansions. Selling monthly subs.

Does the quality of the game, the dedication to the playerbase generate either of those? Historically, no. People come back anyway. I did. So they don't care about what happens DURING an expansion, only that they hype the piss out of the next one to get the numbers back up for the next hit of profits.

Does that mean the devs care about what we're doing right now? No. Cause it doesn't matter to their paycheck. Performance in expansion maters little to nothing at all, cause we'll all buy the xpac anyway, and they'll still get their money.

Because their performance doesn't play into their continued employment, they don't care if we don't like it, cause why should they? They get paid either way.

No one gets fired for piss poor dev work. They only get fired if they don't hype the crowd enough to make some big wigs enough money to buy another Bugatti.

So no. They won't listen, cause they have no incentive to listen. They won't fix things, because they have every incentive NOT to, cause doing it 'in the next xpac' brings people back in.

Give up, they don't care. They won't care. And if they want to keep their job. They CAN'T care.
11/01/2018 05:59 AMPosted by Kharn
Does that mean the devs care about what we're doing right now? No. Cause it doesn't matter to their paycheck.


Not true, if it were there wouldn't be nerfs going out to bring the select few specs that went live in a properly tuned state down to the level of the unfinished specs.

11/01/2018 05:59 AMPosted by Kharn
Give up, they don't care. They won't care. And if they want to keep their job. They CAN'T care.


No, you give up.
11/01/2018 06:14 AMPosted by Razeal
11/01/2018 05:59 AMPosted by Kharn
Does that mean the devs care about what we're doing right now? No. Cause it doesn't matter to their paycheck.


Not true, if it were there wouldn't be nerfs going out to bring the select few specs that went live in a properly tuned state down to the level of the unfinished specs.

11/01/2018 05:59 AMPosted by Kharn
Give up, they don't care. They won't care. And if they want to keep their job. They CAN'T care.


No, you give up.


1: Pvp is a different animal. They have to hide their BS cause PVP actually gets seen by the outside world, cause they have this idiotic idea that WoW should be an esports game.

2: I'm posting here aren't I? That means I still have an account. I am not so stupid as to not see when someone's pissing on my head and calling it rain.
[citation needed] for much of your claims.

You also don't need an active sub to post in the beta forums.
When they say "improve communication" they mean "improve how we convince you that we are right."

But I'm pretty sure they're getting angry calls from higher up in the company for squandering all of the goodwill from Legion.
11/01/2018 08:26 AMPosted by Presance
[citation needed] for much of your claims.

You also don't need an active sub to post in the beta forums.


Either I'm on the mark, or close to it. Occam's Razor.

You try and find a simpler explanation to why the game is circling the drain, given the history of literally every other AAA Dev that went to crap.

You'll find yourself staring at the same logic I used to make that post.
bringing this back around to dev communication. All of the points i have seen have been valid. The only one who could keep them from explaining their design philosophy and answering questions would be blizzard itself (or their lawyers). Players have questions and feedback on their classes and spend hours playing them. Not all feedback is relevant, but feedback is still feedback. I play ret in Mythic Uldir and understand where we are lacking. There have been multiple posts in the forums and on the discord about our aoe, movement, and downtime issues. Players are tired of having answers that are dancing around the issues. We are tired of feeling ignored by those that supposedly know what we want. But most of all WE ARE TIRED OF NOT GETTING ANSWERS OR A CONVERSATION FROM THOSE RESPONSIBLE ON THE DESIGN FANTASY OF OUR CLASS.

On a side note, this might be expected from blizzard's new ceo who said "you dont want to do that, you think you do but you dont". This kind of mentality of speaking for us when we have our own voices that differ from theirs comes down from the leadership.

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