"I hoped you would stop her" - Suckfang

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11/03/2018 08:01 AMPosted by Yagarr
11/03/2018 05:50 AMPosted by Yersynia
So why the hell are we all clamouring for the death of the Warchief and not her development beyond her current flaws?


We aren't all doing that.

But one of the issues with changing Sylvanas is some people don't want her to change or don't want her to become a character fitting the Warchief role. Like me. I'm okay with her being an anti-hero, the story could use more anti-heroes, but I don't want an anti-hero to be Warchief.
Yup. I'd have been fine with Sylvanas if she was still queen of the Forsaken. But she became Warchief and started screwing over the Horde. Actions have consequences, so now I expect her to pay the piper.
11/03/2018 07:45 AMPosted by Lysaux
The amount of people in this thread that just don't get why Saurfang is feeling the way he is, is astonishing.


In that it's nobody and we'd have expected at least one person to not get it by now?

Saurfang hating Syvlanas is not the issue. Saurfang wanting to overthrow Sylvanas is not the issue. Saurfang wanting to kill Sylvanas is not the issue. Hell, Saurfang ordering the execution of his only son for the crime of being undead and mind controlled is not even the issue.

Saurfang using the Alliance to do it is the issue. Saurfang sulking in his jail cell when his 'clever plan' to let the Alliance kill the Horde failed is the issue. Saurfang needing Anduin to come and plead with him to stop Sylvanas before he stands behind his own convictions is the issue.

But most importantly of all, Blizzard wanting us to know all of this and still see Saurfang as the Horde's savior is the issue.

If you hate Sylvanas, as many people do, then what you should be asking Blizzard for is a better option than this Saurfang. And if you heard Saurfang talking about wanting "his Horde" back and you rolled your eyes because of all the entitled whiners it reminded you of, you should be terrified at the thought that this Saurfang is what the current creative development team thinks the heart of the Horde should be.
That last part is where I feel like a lot of Orc and Forsaken players are starting to hit a middle ground after Lost Honor.

The idea they'd want us to see him that way after that is baffling, it's equally confusing that people think Sylvanas blighting and raising her troops at Lordaeron is equitable to prolonging the fight by botching one, maybe even two chances to decisively end the war on the spot.
11/03/2018 06:57 AMPosted by Grandblade
11/03/2018 05:27 AMPosted by Deathisfinal
Extreme Alliance fanbois coming out of the woodworks to support Saurfang, just like they came out of the woodworks to support Koltira. Spare me.

I never knew they cared so much.
Like you're in any position to demonize fanboys, you're a toxic fangirl. You'd do anything to twist the narrative to make Sylvanas and the Forsaken look good, like that one time you tried to declare Dark Mirror non-canon just because it mentioned that the Forsaken's bodies were rotting.

Get over yourself, princess.


Crap posting^^ OldGrandblade is back! I knew it wouldn't take long to get you back. Do you have your *$&#buddy on ignore? Glad you're back. Anyway sit back and let the adults have a real discussion.

11/03/2018 07:45 AMPosted by Treng
Because he doesn't want to be her zombie slave?


So he's afraid of Sylvanas. Great, what's next, is he gonna get man handled by Malfurion and tell Anduin how much he needs him...oh wait?
11/03/2018 08:11 AMPosted by Deathisfinal
So he's afraid of Sylvanas.
Anyone with half a brain should be scared of the Scourge.
Annnnnnnnnnnnd all potential to have a reasonable discourse today has collapsed into a pile of nothingness.
If you don't believe that this isn't Anduin working for the Old gods setting Saurfang up for the literal biggest backstab in the world so that when Anduin turns void form to melt SYlvanas he jumps in the way to save Sylvanas and earn his honorable death.

Well I don't know what to tell you.
11/03/2018 08:16 AMPosted by Seebach
If you don't believe that this isn't Anduin working for the Old gods setting Saurfang up for the literal biggest backstab in the world so that when Anduin turns void form to melt SYlvanas he jumps in the way to save Sylvanas and earn his honorable death.

Well I don't know what to tell you.


A better story than the one we're likely to get.
11/03/2018 05:35 AMPosted by Cursewords
I get a little gloating the Alliance guys are doing. Their boy king got some screen time, and Saurfang is on their team.

I am still not convinced that Sylvanas will be deposed or a raid boss for the Horde players.

She may be a Raid boss in an Alliance version of a split raid if Blizz continues to do that - like Jaina. Where she Banshee-flies away at 10% HP.

But I am not convinced the Horde player is going to be looting her corpse. The expac has just started.


https://i.imgur.com/newhPfn.jpg
11/03/2018 08:14 AMPosted by Darethy
Annnnnnnnnnnnd all potential to have a reasonable discourse today has collapsed into a pile of nothingness.
I'm sorry, what?

The orcs have been faithful Sylvanas drones. What excuse do you have for the Forsaken scourging their corpses with the Botani plague that somehow makes it not scourging them?
11/03/2018 08:12 AMPosted by Treng
11/03/2018 08:11 AMPosted by Deathisfinal
So he's afraid of Sylvanas.
Anyone with half a brain should be scared of the Scourge.


Sylvanas has one of the most iconic and powerful orc on Azeroth shacking in his boots.

As boss as this would make Sylvanas look, I can't exactly accept this suggestion, but you may be right.
11/03/2018 08:36 AMPosted by Treng
11/03/2018 08:14 AMPosted by Darethy
Annnnnnnnnnnnd all potential to have a reasonable discourse today has collapsed into a pile of nothingness.
I'm sorry, what?

The orcs have been faithful Sylvanas drones. What excuse do you have for the Forsaken scourging their corpses with the Botani plague that somehow makes it not scourging them?


I was talking about DeathisFinal, not you Treng.

At the same time i'm not even sure how the Botani plague works, but it's probably not that different from Death Knight raising which...always confused me as acceptable in either faction.

But you know, Tirion Fordrings posted note and warlocks.
11/03/2018 08:41 AMPosted by Darethy
11/03/2018 08:36 AMPosted by Treng
... I'm sorry, what?

The orcs have been faithful Sylvanas drones. What excuse do you have for the Forsaken scourging their corpses with the Botani plague that somehow makes it not scourging them?


I was talking about DeathisFinal, not you Treng.

At the same time i'm not even sure how the Botani plague works, but it's probably not that different from Death Knight raising which...always confused me as acceptable in either faction.

But you know, Tirion Fordrings posted note and warlocks.
Orcs hated being turned into botani on draenor. They're an ancestor worshiping race. In no way is using their corpses an approved thing.
Crap posting^^ OldGrandblade is back! I knew it wouldn't take long to get you back. Do you have your *$&#buddy on ignore? Glad you're back. Anyway sit back and let the adults have a real discussion.
Except it stops being a real discussion when people stick their heads so far up their own bias that they are snapping at each other like quarreling siblings.

This is the problem I have with this expansion. The story is story and it's pretty garbo at that. But this garbo story is making the player base tear other apart like a pact of thrice damned wolves. To the point where we can't even handle having a lore discussion about heated topics without it devolving into a name calling hatefest.
11/03/2018 05:50 AMPosted by Yersynia
So why the hell are we all clamouring for the death of the Warchief and not her development beyond her current flaws?

This is a major gripe of mine. This is Garrosh all over again, from a writing direction perspective anyway (I’m not sold that she’s dying). If we are going to say that Saurfang can develop past his atrocities, why is the push for some Alliance-sanctioned rebel to unseat the head of state instead of asking for Sylvanas’ screentime to !@#$ing *build* her character, build *anything* for the Horde, instead of tearing things down.


If it could say anything to Sylvanas, it would be "Oh lovey dovey Sylvie Senpai, I love you desperately, but why do you do the things that you do?"

For a character-driven drama, WoW draws Sylvanas completely opaquely. What does she want to do? To protect the Horde? The Forsaken? Her own life? None of these gel especially with the evidence we're given.

So, there has to be a twist. But, given how EVIL she is and how much a lot of players HATE her, what twist could possibly go over well?

I get where you're coming from--I really do--but I think they've overcommitted on the evil for them to go much of anywhere. Maybe they will think of something earth shattering, though. Do you see a compelling direction for her?
11/03/2018 08:45 AMPosted by Treng
11/03/2018 08:41 AMPosted by Darethy
...

I was talking about DeathisFinal, not you Treng.

At the same time i'm not even sure how the Botani plague works, but it's probably not that different from Death Knight raising which...always confused me as acceptable in either faction.

But you know, Tirion Fordrings posted note and warlocks.
Orcs hated being turned into botani on draenor. They're an ancestor worshiping race. In no way is using their corpses an approved thing.


I don't disagree, just pointing out the Horde and Alliance have been doing it forever. It's a disconnect caused by gameplay and lore, which is probably why it's easier for much of the Forsaken fanbase to be unbothered by it.
11/02/2018 01:55 PMPosted by Deathisfinal
Really? Is that what he really hoped? Does Saurfang character get any more pathetic than this?

1st it was Dishonorable Blow

2nd it was sparing Anduin

3rd it was deciding to live in Stormwind

4th actively becomes a traitor

5th kills Horde troops

Talk about a fall from grace. His character is a disgrace and embarrassment to all true Horde warriors.


It's really the exact opposite. Saurfang is taking a stand for what he believes in, which is mainly HONOR. Yes he did the things that you mentioned, but it was out of protest for his leader who is making questionable and dishonorable decisions. He is doing what he believes is best to restore honor and dignity to the Horde, something that Sylvanas is really stretching thin.
11/03/2018 08:41 AMPosted by Darethy
I was talking about DeathisFinal


Don't know why I rattle your bones, but you seem to only have an issue when I return the snide remarks directed at me.
11/03/2018 08:51 AMPosted by Deathisfinal
11/03/2018 08:41 AMPosted by Darethy
I was talking about DeathisFinal


Don't know why I rattle your bones, but you seem to only have an issue when I return the snide remarks directed at me.


I would say my compliment to you at the start of this thread was backhanded at best.

Too extreme regarding the Forsaken for my tastes, but you do you.

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