You're welcome Alliance

General Discussion
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11/05/2018 12:38 PMPosted by Shadethistle
I like the racials. They add flavor. I LOVE my shadowmeld, especially with as often as Feign Death fails to work properly. But maybe they need to go...or be added to a pick list, and you can pick any two you want. Simply because Blizzard is TERRIBLE at balance.


As much as I complain about racials, I would hate to see them go away completely.

IMO, what they need to do is realize the inherent weakness with self-dispels, and get rid of *those*.

EMFH
WOTF
Escape Artist
etc...

Delete them and start over where necessary. Make sure every race has some kind of **fun** active racial ability.

The original intent of the racial abilities was to ensure that the horde didn't fall behind the alliance since they knew that paladins were more powerful than shamans. Therefore, they gave the horde better racial abilities by design.

However, now the shoe is on the other foot and not only are both factions mirrors for class access, the horde is not less powerful than the alliance by design. The one hand didn't bother to talk to the other hand when TBC was being developed and the trend of giving the horde more powerful racial abilities continued even as the horde's shortcommings were made up for.

At some point, I think the idea became "give horde the PvE racials, and the alliance the PvP racials". Unfortunately, this meant that the alliance, with their plethora of self-dispels, had very tightly controlled racial abilities. Many of which seem to be "opt-in" by PvE designers (evidenced by the large number of boss mechanics that act like things an alliance racial should be able to dispel, but cannot actually be dispelled.

The horde will also sometimes encounter mechanics like this that act like charm, sleep, or fear effects without actually being a charm, sleep, or fear effect, rendering WOTF useless.

Of course, the different here in PvE is that for the horde WOTF is the odd-man-out while for the Alliance it's the norm.

The horde, OTOH, gets stacked with active, offensive abilities that tend to be designed around, but are far more likely to have unintended side effects (see: Zul, Reborn vs Arcane Torrent). Additionally, since these unintended side effects never seem to get fixed (which I can understand. Why not let them feel rewarded for making a choice?), reality is imbalanced because of the self-dispel nature of most of the Alliance's racial abilities.

Dispels are a core mechanic that used to be spammable. Which means that dispel mechanics are very, very well accounted for making the chance that an alliance self-dispel racial is going to break anything effectively zero.

I mean, if EMFH prevented Vectis's Gestate from spawning an add it would be broken on par with AT during Zul. However, it doesn't because it's a defensive, single target dispel which is far more locked down than anything offensive tends to be.

Finally you've got the PvP-PvE interaction which means that if a self-dispel isn't locked down super-hard, it's going to be OP. This means that alliance racial abilities cannot afford to have much WOW-factor to them as they can become OP extremely easily. Though, it doesn't explain why WOTF is a 2 min CD when pretty much all of the others barring Escape Artist (the most useless racial in the game) clock in at 3.

Beyond the self dispels, Alliance active abilities tend to be "more damage" (I lump the draenei heal in here as well, only it's even less useful).

Alliance doesn't have any fun button mechanics that have room for unintended interactions capable of making a boss easier.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that Blizzard isn't terrible at balance. The problem is that it seems like balance was never the goal, and along the way someone forgot the original goal.
11/05/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Ollin
11/05/2018 04:52 AMPosted by Thèón
So Alliance has better PvP racials and horde has PvE ones? Cool.


Horde has better PvP racials too.

All of the good alliance PvP racials are self dispels and the most powerful ones have additional limitations like shared cooldowns with trinkets in addition to the most severely limited scope.

...all of which makes them vulnerable to things like good tactics, and good play.

Unlike horde PvP racials, which are either passive (when limited in scope), or offensively applicable (like war stomp) which makes them much more difficult, if not impossible, to out-play.


If you can't outplay a war stomp then you need to get good at the game. The racials don't mean a damn thing. Oh no, the belf removed my BoP! Should have used divine shield.
You're the reason nobody takes the Alliance seriously.

It was pretty funny.
11/05/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Smirg
You're the reason nobody takes the Alliance seriously.

It was pretty funny.


It was funny! People play the professional victim card way too much.
11/05/2018 01:08 PMPosted by Thèón
If you can't outplay a war stomp then you need to get good at the game. The racials don't mean a damn thing. Oh no, the belf removed my BoP! Should have used divine shield.


Yet when EMFH affected everything on the same CD, it was bonkers-levels of OP.

"If you can't press your CC button a second time, and can't rotate in a second type of CC, you need to get good at the game."

If you can't play around that human's 2nd damage trinket, you need to get good at the game.

Because the racials only mean a damn thing when the alliance have good ones, I guess.
I completely can't take any Alliance serious who gets offended by this.

Grow up, it's a joke.
11/03/2018 08:53 PMPosted by Valhallen
11/03/2018 08:24 PMPosted by Krothare
Ion literally takes pride in the fact that he's never gotten Double Agent. He's played the same Orc Shaman since day 1 vanilla, and has stated multiple, multiple times he will never roll Alliance.

Which is probably why every encounter for the last 4 expansions has blatantly favored Horde to the point of making it almost impossible to raid Mythic on Alliance.


This is why we need a new Warcraft lead. The level of arrogance and hubris shown will only bring more heartache to players - and some players will only tolerate that for so long. Ion is why the Alliance can't have nice things.

I tossed a bunch of likes on this thread - the unprofessional jabs are unwelcome.


I agree. Though Blizzard has always tended toward horde bias, it wasn't until Ion landed in the big chair that they flat out quit giving a damn how blatant the horde bias is. This man needs to go.
11/05/2018 03:46 PMPosted by Tentaclatrix
I completely can't take any Alliance serious who gets offended by this.

Grow up, it's a joke.


It was one joke on top of many other jokes, all made at the expense of half the playerbase that this group of horde loving devs is supposed to be making a game for. They are so busy trying to think up one liner mockeries to toss out at half the people paying their salaries, that they forgot to think about what kind of repercussions it will cause in the long run.

We are sick of the jokes, we are sick of them ignoring our very real concerns, we are sick of them constantly making sure every horde is happy while they scoff and make fun of Alliance. We are just sick of their immaturity and unprofessionalism.
11/05/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Smirg
You're the reason nobody takes the Alliance seriously.

It was pretty funny.


It wasn't anything to get worked up about.

It also wasn't funny.

It was pretty meh as far as humor goes.
I think the dev's comment was a distraction. Blizz is planning on moving technology from the most tedius part of the game (island expeditions) to imho the most exciting part of the game (battlegrounds) This is going to fail hard.

And really... how out of touch is this dev that he thinks what the Alliance wants is wins against an AI in bgs?

Hey out of touch dev... this is what the Alliance wants:

1) fair racials in pvp (or removal of racials in competative play)
2) a fair gearing progression for pvpers... like pvpers not having to do content they hate (PVE) to get gear for content they enjoy (PVP)

3) all classes being viable in high end PVP.

So simple! Why can't Blizzard grasp these simple facts?

The Alliance will gladly thank you once you implement the above changes... that are already implemented in like EVERY e-sport/video game out there.
11/03/2018 05:30 PMPosted by Halodin
i wll also thank you by not puting a foot in your BGs and by turning my warmode off.

That'll show them who's boss
Devs built game in favor of alliance — best racials. Best map designs.
11/05/2018 03:46 PMPosted by Tentaclatrix
I completely can't take any Alliance serious who gets offended by this.

Grow up, it's a joke.


Seriously. Someone in the BG forums posted that, no one frothed at the mouth. it was actually kinda funny.
What would you do if there were no alliance players in the game, at all? Bgs would be horde on horde? Oh wait, you could make AI alliance to fight.. lol

You're welcome Horde =P
11/05/2018 03:32 PMPosted by Ollin
11/05/2018 01:08 PMPosted by Thèón
If you can't outplay a war stomp then you need to get good at the game. The racials don't mean a damn thing. Oh no, the belf removed my BoP! Should have used divine shield.


Yet when EMFH affected everything on the same CD, it was bonkers-levels of OP.

"If you can't press your CC button a second time, and can't rotate in a second type of CC, you need to get good at the game."

If you can't play around that human's 2nd damage trinket, you need to get good at the game.

Because the racials only mean a damn thing when the alliance have good ones, I guess.


I never said anything about EMFH or a 2nd trinket at all. The half a second Tauren stun isn't open at all and if you have issues fighting it then you need to get good.
11/05/2018 01:08 PMPosted by Thèón
If you can't outplay a war stomp then you need to get good at the game. The racials don't mean a damn thing. Oh no, the belf removed my BoP! Should have used divine shield.


11/06/2018 12:30 PMPosted by Thèón
I never said anything about EMFH or a 2nd trinket at all. The half a second Tauren stun isn't open at all and if you have issues fighting it then you need to get good.


It's funny you say this when top pvp players choose those racials for the distinct advantage they offer. You clearly don't know how or when to use them though. You don't hold a candle to those players so stop pretending you do.
11/06/2018 12:45 PMPosted by Monnserrat
11/05/2018 01:08 PMPosted by Thèón
If you can't outplay a war stomp then you need to get good at the game. The racials don't mean a damn thing. Oh no, the belf removed my BoP! Should have used divine shield.


11/06/2018 12:30 PMPosted by Thèón
I never said anything about EMFH or a 2nd trinket at all. The half a second Tauren stun isn't open at all and if you have issues fighting it then you need to get good.


It's funny you say this when top pvp players choose those racials for the distinct advantage they offer. You clearly don't know how or when to use them though. You don't hold a candle to those players so stop pretending you do.


I never claimed to being the best at PvP. Trust me though, I know how racials work and what they offer and how to use them. This isn't my first day playing the game.
Lmao. Alliance have all the better racials hands down anyways. Not the hordes fault that the alliance player base just happens to be bad. And before you go in on racials that the horde have, you alliance players have access through all of them through classes. Except you know a 10% reputation gain bonus.
11/04/2018 08:08 AMPosted by Halodin
11/04/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Stylo
I'd hate to see how you handle real adversity if this got your panties in a twist


I'm a really competitive person and love adversity.

In fact if you only took the time to think about it before posting, you would have notice that it's exactly the lack of adversity that bring me here. The lack of balance.

Coming from someone who chose the easy win faction that made me smile.

If you really love adversity show it, switch faction and try to progress in pve, in BGs or by simply puting your warmode on. Now you will know the real meaning of adversity.


I've pretty much benched my mains (shadow and ele) and decided to level my LF and velf alts until BfA gets sorted. Warmode lasted all of about 5 levels each, and frustration prompted me to turn it off. There's simply no contest between a toon in the 60s vs 3 120s. Not sure if any bigger bonuses to the disadvantaged side will be enough for me to turn it back on for them. As it is, with WM turned off, I am still encountering a fair amount of horde players camping lower level zones near pvp-flagging areas (like in Zangarmarsh) just waiting for alliance players to accidentally get flagged so they can one shot them.
11/06/2018 12:48 PMPosted by Oriendaria
Lmao. Alliance have all the better racials hands down anyways. Not the hordes fault that the alliance player base just happens to be bad. And before you go in on racials that the horde have, you alliance players have access through all of them through classes. Except you know a 10% reputation gain bonus.

Imagine being so delusional you think Horde have weaker racials and that the only reason the Alliance progression is behind is due to Alliance player skill.

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