Cat DPS Guide - 4.3

Druid
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03/14/2011 3:04 PMPosted by Dabearz
does stacking haste after agility and mastery make a big difference with energy regen? been looking for a table that shows how much energy per second you get for every 1% of haste, or something like that.


to give you a practical meaning behind the numbers...
each 6.66% haste = 40 energy/min IE another shred each minute

& to give you further insight into what this means, you do at best 15 shreds/min* (sans berserk) IE 6.66% haste = 6.66% more shred DPS.

berserking will bring down this return when doing more than 15/min, But if you are under 15 shred/min the haste will do more

*this is due to the energy created/min + tf + 5OoC and keeping rake/mangle/rips/sr up at all times during that 1 min interval

[dont forget haste also increased white hits/sec by exactly the%....100% = double the white hits.]
Great post, has helped me out a lot!

I have one quick question, probably been asked before but dont have time to go through all the pages right now.

I know 50 str is best enchant for gloves, but what is second best? Not all can afford the 2x crystals for the 50 str. Currently im going with 50 mastery, but what else would be viable?

Thanks :)
I know 50 str is best enchant for gloves, but what is second best? Not all can afford the 2x crystals for the 50 str. Currently im going with 50 mastery, but what else would be viable?


35 Str is 2nd best.
1. Use Tiger's Fury if it is available, and you have less than 25 energy
2. Use Mangle if Strength of the Panther (4T11) is about to fall off.
3. Use Ravage if Stampede buff is about to fade.
4. Use Feral Faerie Fire if it (or equivalent buff) is not already on the target
5. Use Mangle if it (or equivalent buff) is not already on the target
6. Use Berserk if it is available, and there is more than 15 seconds remaining on Tiger’s Fury cooldown
7. Use Ferocious Bite if Blood in the Water is active, and you have 5 Combo Points or Rip is about to fade
8. Use Rip if you have 5 Combo Points and Rip is not up or has less than 2 seconds remaining
9. Use Rake if Tiger’s Fury is up and existing Rake has less than 8.5 seconds remaining
10. Use Rake if Rake is not up or the existing Rake has less than 3 seconds remaining
11. Use Shred if Omen of Clarity is up
12. Use Savage Roar if it is about to fade
13. Use Shred if it will extend Rip
14. Use Ravage if Stampede is up
15. Use Mangle if Strength of the Panther (4T11) is under 3 stacks.
16. Use Shred if Tiger’s Fury is almost ready, or you have more than 80 energy, or Berserk is active
17. Conserve energy


Umm....is it just me, or does this look just a TAD more complicated than other dps classes? Seriously...
1. Use Tiger's Fury if it is available, and you have less than 25 energy
2. Use Mangle if Strength of the Panther (4T11) is about to fall off.
3. Use Ravage if Stampede buff is about to fade.
4. Use Feral Faerie Fire if it (or equivalent buff) is not already on the target
5. Use Mangle if it (or equivalent buff) is not already on the target
6. Use Berserk if it is available, and there is more than 15 seconds remaining on Tiger’s Fury cooldown
7. Use Ferocious Bite if Blood in the Water is active, and you have 5 Combo Points or Rip is about to fade
8. Use Rip if you have 5 Combo Points and Rip is not up or has less than 2 seconds remaining
9. Use Rake if Tiger’s Fury is up and existing Rake has less than 8.5 seconds remaining
10. Use Rake if Rake is not up or the existing Rake has less than 3 seconds remaining
11. Use Shred if Omen of Clarity is up
12. Use Savage Roar if it is about to fade
13. Use Shred if it will extend Rip
14. Use Ravage if Stampede is up
15. Use Mangle if Strength of the Panther (4T11) is under 3 stacks.
16. Use Shred if Tiger’s Fury is almost ready, or you have more than 80 energy, or Berserk is active
17. Conserve energy


Umm....is it just me, or does this look just a TAD more complicated than other dps classes? Seriously...


Its easier than it used to be, trust me on that ;)

Its not that hard or complicated anymore. Its a priority system not a rotation. Just alot to keep track of, which is very easy if you use the right addons.
Sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere (I didn't see it in the actual guide) but what do you recommend as the off piece for T11. Currently I have the helm slot as the off piece but I have this suspicion that I'm wrong about that.
Helm for E359, and chest for E372.
Don't you get more out of 4pc and stark. All 359? The chest is atrocious. I don't want to use it :( Heck I don't even want to buy it.

Edit. I get next heroic stark.... assuming it ever drops again. This decision becomes moot at that point imo.
03/20/2011 12:01 AMPosted by Trombone
Don't you get more out of 4pc and stark. All 359? The chest is atrocious.


The tier chest has a better socket bonus (20 agility vs. 20 mastery) which is worth gemming for. With the changes in 4.06 lowering the relative value of mastery to be closer to the other stats, last time I checked, the tier chest was actually slightly better than Sarks at the 359 item level. I have not checked the 372 versions though and Sark's may end up ahead at that point.
Hmm.... Sneaky socket bonus. Did not think about it at all. I will look into it. Ty

Edit:

Sorry, I just don't see it. Assuming you gem starks 20agi/20mastery and tier chest with 20agi/20hit, you are trading 40 mastery for 20agi/20hit. While that may be worth it, I do not see it being worth losing 198 crit and 218 mastery for 228 haste and 188 expertise.

Of all the tier pieces, the chest is the worst and of all the offset pieces, starks is the best to trade for imo. The recent nerf to bleed damage is not substantial enough to give up such a large amount of mastery. Again, IMO.
No one is denying that the tier chest is terrible, but the fact is the tier helm is equally bad. The thing that makes Tsanga's Helm more desirable as the off-set than Sark is the Sark's inferior socket bonus. You should be gemming double-delicates with Sark (ignoring the socket bonus because 20 Agi > 40 Mastery) and delicate + glinting with tier chest, so you get 80 Agi + 20 Hit Rating from gems with Tier Chest, and just 80 Agi from gems with Sark.

Overall, going with Tsanga's for the off-set instead of the Sark gives (assuming hit = expertise and haste = crit):
+10 mastery
+40 hit/exp
-30 crit/haste

So it's better to go with the Tsanga's as off-set.

For E372 level though, there is no heroic version of Tsanga's Helm and the heroic Membrane is terrible, so Sark easily becomes the prefered off-set.
No one is denying that the tier chest is terrible, but the fact is the tier helm is equally bad. The thing that makes Tsanga's Helm more desirable as the off-set than Sark is the Sark's inferior socket bonus. You should be gemming double-delicates with Sark (ignoring the socket bonus because 20 Agi > 40 Mastery) and delicate + glinting with tier chest, so you get 80 Agi + 20 Hit Rating from gems with Tier Chest, and just 80 Agi from gems with Sark.

Overall, going with Tsanga's for the off-set instead of the Sark gives (assuming hit = expertise and haste = crit):
+10 mastery
+40 hit/exp
-30 crit/haste

So it's better to go with the Tsanga's as off-set.

For E372 level though, there is no heroic version of Tsanga's Helm and the heroic Membrane is terrible, so Sark easily becomes the prefered off-set.


Hmm. Nice breakdown. Thank you. We have a couple spare Tsanga's in the bank so I will probably give this make up a shot.
Ok I have to be missing something, I've been hit capped for the past couple montsh so that I can reliably interrupt for my raid team. I do decent dps (usually around 80% rank mark on WoL) and I understand the cat rotation. I have the 2 piece bonus and will be getting the 4 piece shortly. I know in the upcoming 4.1 patch I'll be able to reforge out of hit rating due to skull bash no longer requiring hit rating to land 100% of the time. So, out of curiosity I reforged out of hit and into crit and hit the dummies to get a preview of how I will fare once the patch hits. The results were not what I though they would be, or what I wanted them to be. I did 13.5k hit capped after 5 minutes and 13k with everything reforged to mastery/crit after 5 minutes, so a dps loss of 500 in other words. So I thought to myself maybe im at the point where i need to be putting more into haste, went and reforged into haste instead of crit and my dps after 5 minutes on the dummy dropped even further, struggling to maintain more than 12.6. Ive done this many many times thinking maybe I needed a larger sample size but I continue to get the same results.

Any thoughts? Help is much appreciated, I keep reading people saying that hit capping isnt going to max dps for us but for some reason thats not the case for me when I actually go and test it for myself. I know you may say I have to get used to the increased misses as a result of not being hit capped but I wasnt hit capped all through wrath and am pretty comfortable dealing with the extra misses and the less "smooth" feel of the rotation.
Ok I have to be missing something, I've been hit capped for the past couple montsh so that I can reliably interrupt for my raid team. I do decent dps (usually around 80% rank mark on WoL) and I understand the cat rotation. I have the 2 piece bonus and will be getting the 4 piece shortly. I know in the upcoming 4.1 patch I'll be able to reforge out of hit rating due to skull bash no longer requiring hit rating to land 100% of the time. So, out of curiosity I reforged out of hit and into crit and hit the dummies to get a preview of how I will fare once the patch hits. The results were not what I though they would be, or what I wanted them to be. I did 13.5k hit capped after 5 minutes and 13k with everything reforged to mastery/crit after 5 minutes, so a dps loss of 500 in other words. So I thought to myself maybe im at the point where i need to be putting more into haste, went and reforged into haste instead of crit and my dps after 5 minutes on the dummy dropped even further, struggling to maintain more than 12.6. Ive done this many many times thinking maybe I needed a larger sample size but I continue to get the same results.

Any thoughts? Help is much appreciated, I keep reading people saying that hit capping isnt going to max dps for us but for some reason thats not the case for me when I actually go and test it for myself. I know you may say I have to get used to the increased misses as a result of not being hit capped but I wasnt hit capped all through wrath and am pretty comfortable dealing with the extra misses and the less "smooth" feel of the rotation.


Double Post = bad.
03/21/2011 9:16 PMPosted by Konungr
Double Post = bad


Take it easy, i posted it here and immediately thought i'd prob be better served creating my own thread with it, not a big deal.
03/21/2011 9:48 PMPosted by Arnathis
Double Post = bad


Take it easy, i posted it here and immediately thought i'd prob be better served creating my own thread with it, not a big deal.


I don't know where your other post is, so I will answer this here. Doing a single 5 minute run to compare dps results is not sufficient to tell you about the differences in the relative values of your stat choices. RNG can make the results vary a lot between successive tries on a training dummy. For reference, Mew defaults to 10,000 iterations of a given fight scenario in order to determine with a high degree of confidence the results are correct (think statistics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_interval).

Further, the difference in the relative values of secondary stats is very small now. The reforging you are considering will likely result in a 50-100 dps change which is something you will not be able to measure on a training dummy. I just did a series of simulations using different reforging schemes which you can read about here: http://fluiddruid.net/2011/03/4-06-the-homogenization-of-secondary-stats/
03/21/2011 8:44 PMPosted by Arnathis
out of curiosity I reforged out of hit and into crit and hit the dummies to get a preview of how I will fare once the patch hits.


Dummies are good for getting your rotation and such under control. Using them as anything else does nothing good. Go hop in BH and see how you do. I pull like 13k on the dummy while in a raid I pull 22k, there is a big difference in the numbers there.
Just want to make a simple request, does anyone have the numbers on stat values?I recall last expansion I had a list of the approximetly values of different stats, instead of just a blanket chart of best to worst. Is that around here again somewhere?
It's intended not to put up the stat values, because they fluctuate a lot depending on your current gear.
03/25/2011 1:29 AMPosted by Vardar
Just want to make a simple request, does anyone have the numbers on stat values?I recall last expansion I had a list of the approximetly values of different stats, instead of just a blanket chart of best to worst. Is that around here again somewhere?


The stat weights vary based on your specific gear comp. Go to the first page of this guide and click on the link to Mew and use it. It will tell you what the current stat weights for your gear are.

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