These "Hotfixes" are a no, no.

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People that play on the PTR are usually the top tier players and their feedback should be listened to regardless of sample size.

When you have maybe 100-200 people on the PTR from the top guilds in the world telling you something is broken and you ignore them, push it live and then find out "hey they were right" it's time to swallow your "Developer" ego and listen to them.

All I get out of this thread is the acknoledgement that feedback on the PTR is igored because the sample size isn't large enough; irregardless of who and what the feedback is.

also, today I learned irredgardless is actually a word after years of bashing it.
still dragging your feet on getting back to all the druids huh
3 points of interest:

1) Im glad you have finally come out and said the forums/blogs have no weight with you. So, I want post of them anymore as they are nothing more than a resource for venting/arrogance.
2) Im glad the Developers have finally admitted that "Live Ingame Play" has no weight with them. We assumed that for a long time. Im proud of you guys for finally admitted the fact that was generally known.
3) You changes and balances for the Disc Priest have had the desired effect, I deleted the spec from my priest. You win!

In conclusion, I see you are slowly coming to the understanding of the large majority of the player base. You are arrogant, only work from test realm data on higher geared toons and could really care less about the majority of the community. Well, you design and methodology is working as intended; I will not be a part of the community after my CC prepaid time runs out/several of my guildies and numerous friends have already left the game for more Player friendly VR. Have fun. Good luck.
Dont waste your time. The bell is tolling for the game. When the developers stop listening to the community at large; saying
Hey, you've taken the play out of Playing WOW", then its time to start looking for the Next Best in Slot. Either they loose the arrogance or they dont. Wow stays around for a long time or it doesnt. Its seems the devs have maturated into brain trust that feels they know what we should like and which buttons we should push. stop wasting your time. They dont care.
hunter for the love of god stop you ignorant QQ... #1 multi trap.... lmao OP nuff said. #2 why does it matter what aimed shot is or isnt doing..... you guys are crzy dps even after this minor nerf you got, if its not the case for you then l2 play. Blizz does what they do well. let them handle the issues dont clutter good forums with your random qq banter enough already.
Multi trapping is OP? how? You can't do it in pvp without wasting readiness, and even then only as marks, and even then its like 2 seconds of freeze on one target before the other breaks if you can even hit both in the first place. In pve there are few times when you even would want to. It was basically an oh crap someone broke their cc, time to try to save the group technique. They did this change to make sure that cc was balanced between classes, yet hunters are the only class whose cc is both clunky and hard to use, and able to outright fail.

Aimed shot is, by the devs own admittance, not supposed to be a hardcasted part of our rotation, yet even after the changes it remains so, it is also bugged in more ways than one (2 ways of which account for our "crzy dps"). The rotation is clunky and awkward, especially on any fight with movement. Survival got nerfed, then marks was made stronger than surv was prenerf. BM is completely, literally, completely worthless on some fights due to pet mechanics. We have a less than 2% arena representation over 2200. This class is broken and we continue to watch them fail to fix it.

A 2k ap buff to Hawk is exactly the kind of Band-Aid fix this thread warns about, and yet they continue.
  • Fourth point really struck home with all of the designers, and that's that they also have an obligation to not use the live realms as a balancing laboratory. That while the changes being made have seemed very quick and sporadic at times, that there is thought and planning going in to them, and they are consciously avoiding throwing out changes and seeing what happens. While some changes have been implemented and then reverted, it's not because a lot of thought and effort didn't go into them, but that simply they didn't work as intended.

So... seeing the list of class changes for 4.1 and hearing that there's a lot more coming... it feels like the developers are going for a repeat of the recent fiascos.

Honestly, just reading the patch notes from a few patches ago, some changes or omissions should have stuck out like a sore thumb. DKs and Warlocks being skipped on the gigantic AoE nerf, for one. Or, more recently, the 208% increase to Priest shields. (And you'll note fixes in later patches and the planned 4.1 changes to address these issues)

It just seems like there's a growing disconnect between the developers and the players. Do the devs still play because they enjoy it, or do they just play because they have to, despite feeling "burned-out"? I'm just throwing out possible causes here, but I hope some of it can help.

Here's to hoping they actually decide to use the Live Servers as such, and not as a "testing ground", or more appropriately, a "beta". I think at least the live servers should be past the "Beta" stage by now...
02/19/2011 4:39 PMPosted by Bashiok
Class balance comes from no single source. And while forum feedback is part of it, it's not enough to drive a change alone.

This is bull and you know it. I'm sick to death of hearing this bull when all I read on DPS and PvP forums is how certain classes are OP and BAM, the nerfbat comes down on, guess what, that EXACT class.

If it can be conclusively proven that ALL of the recent nerfs to Druids resulted as a result of significantly skewed gameplay on the PTR, which you have OPENLY ADMITTED do NOT provide a wide enough sample to make these determinations, then I will STFU and go sulk quietly in my forums, but until then, I'm still gonna !%%@* about how #%!%ing overpowered MAGES are and CONTINUE TO BE in PvP and how #%!%ed Druids are because it seems that the devs ONLY listen to QQ when it suits them. The 400+ and counting pages of posts AGAINST THE NERFS TO FERAL DRUIDS obviously never made it to the Devs.

Sorry, I'm still upset that PvP QQ helped to break Feral Druids in PvE.
I'm kind of sad this ended :/
lol well apparently the devs haven't tested out the druids which at this point are getting the shaft right now. and rogues are just becoming wat to OP lately. i haven't seen 1 nerf yet to that class only a #!*% ton of buffs. but i'm a DK, we have considerably high burst damage so i can't say much but when you go against a rogue you know you have a high chance at death because of all the stuns and now the quick stealths and the damage gets pretty rediculous.
02/18/2011 8:48 PMPosted by Bashiok
While there was feedback from the PTR on what is broken, overpowered, underpowered, etc. there simply wasn't enough data and real world proof for us to make changes. Forum posts always make a lot of noise. It's difficult to separate the seed from the chaff. Yes, it turned out a number of reports proved to be accurate once the 4.0.6's hit the masses and we were able to get a sample size that showed us what needed adjusting.

So you admit that people told you what was broken, as in you had players that have been with you through thick and thin giving you suggestions on how to fix it and why, and you ignored us.

Why do you think it is okay to ignore the community. Feral druids are really upset about the mobility nerf and we were telling you that all throughout the PTR. Now it is here and that is being confirmed.

Here's the thing. Don't wait until after the PTR to decide something isn't right. After you release a class defining change it is hard to change it back without someone being upset. You must stop things in PTR before they go any further.

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