Patch 4.1/4.2 Content

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Speaking as a raid / guild leader for a semi hardcore guild.

This doesn't bother me at all. Its more of a relief then anything. True I have all the normal modes down, but I want a bit more time to get some HM's down before going to a brand new everything. My raid is 1/13 HM and we only raid two days a week for 6 hours total. I at least want to have the ability to wipe on Sinestra before the next tier.

Honestly this is great news. (And I don't care what anyone says. ZG / ZA is not recycled content. At all.)


This. I don't want another rehash of Ulduar being thrown away because of new stuff. Ulduar was one of my favorite LK raids, and it saddened me how it was cast aside when ToC came out, even though we were just starting Hard Modes. I like the idea of waiting.

Blizzard designed Hard Modes for a reason: for people to be challenged. Quit whining and go down Sinestra, then come back and tell me that 4.1 will be a failure.
coming from someone who's cleared regular raids and has absolutely no inclination for the headache that is heroic raids...

good time for a break :) I'll resub in 6-12 months probably
so hardcore guys, blizzard needs you! what are your suggestions to getting more people through this content that you are already bored with?

ICC buff? Massive nerfs? Free epics? Hardcore outreach program where h13 players offer to run with lesser skilled guilds to help them get their first nef kill?

Now that the hardcore guys have to wait on the more of the bads to finish this current tier is there anything they can do to help speed that along?

no firelands till more bads finish nef.



Normal modes are fine. They don't need any nerfs or adjustment and this is coming from a casual player.
Great decision.

Also a great feeling seeing all these whiners saying they are quitting. Hopefully it'll raise the average WoW playerbase IQ level just that little bit higher.

A new raid tier means they will trivialize the LAST raid tier. It means casuals get to upgrade their gear from pug raids and justice points again. It means guilds faltering on a particular boss can move on. It means guilds that are developing attendance issues to raids due to lack of interest can get some rejuvenation.


And what about those that got into the expansion late and want to actually have a challenging experience running through these raids? Rather than rely on gear to boost you up, how about actually learning the mechanics and getting the satisfaction of a boss kill rather then thinking of the gear? Normal modes aren't hard. Hard modes are catered for the 'elite raiders' you are talking about and are a purely optional experience.

You're opinion is also contradictory to the actual purpose on this change which is to allow people more time to spend trying to progress through normal and hard modes. Your idea of fun is being the bottom feeder and zerging through raids and heroics like WotLK as a result of number inflation.

Stop assuming that your experience and opinions are based off the majority of the playerbase.


#1- Why would a player hopping into this expansion late (I'm assuming you are talking about yourself here) have any bearing at all on what content the other 10 million people should have access to? How could you POSSIBLY experience it as challenging raid content when you enter the tier late and will be geared lower than your compatriots who will clearly have to carry you through it.

#2- Check my armory. I raid now. I'm not hardcore. I play well enough to rank sometimes on world of logs. I don't want to be carried, I just want the game to continue forward. I get no sense of self-worth from what I accomplish inside WoW. It's a video game, nothing more. It' value to me is how much fun I have when I log on and when I log off the rest of azeroth may as well stop functioning altogether.

#3- Since you are posting and getting personal with me, I have to ask if you are posting on an alt, because it doesn't appear you've accomplished ANYTHING this expansion except some big talking. Good luck experiencing raid content as it was meant to be since you'll be walking into a raid in blues and being carried through it by a bunch of people in epics.
I see absolutely no reason why they can't just implement Firelands. If it is tuned anything like most of the current raids, people that haven't cleared MOST of this tier will fail miserably in Firelands anyway.

I'm only about half way through this tier but the raid group I was in fell apart so I barely even play. Giving me recycled content is not going to get me to pay for another month. And huge LOLs at sending me an email offering a free week if I came back. Desperate much?
If the fight designs for the new bosses in ZA and ZG are fun and challenging, I think this patch will be a success. I actually hope they continue this trend by releasing harder 5-mans with new plot elements in between each raiding tier. They could even do themselves a favor and design each 5-man with a wide variety of fights and continue the trend of timed modes or extreme achievement modes that will be fun and challenging (right at release) for even the most seasoned raider.
Why are you making the game stale at the beginning of the expansion?

You released a tiny amount of content this expansion compared to others (less quests, less leveling zones and less 5 mans. To compensate you've added in more grinds (guild rep, horrible faction rep, archaeology and Tol Barad tokens).

If you released firelands in 2 months, you would be at a 5 month mark. Are you really going to push this boring raid content even longer than that? 6 months? 7?

This is a disappointing change both as a raider and as a GM. Not only is recruiting hell in Cata, but now I'm going to have to do it constantly thanks to the burn out you are going to force upon us by force feeding us rehashed content (Really? ZA and ZG again? Follow up by Molten Core again?). I'm sure ZA and ZG will be fun once or twice as novelty, but after that it will quickly be the same thing I've done a long time ago (100's of times each).

Please reconsider this. Your game is already stale and boring. Please don't wait longer for new content.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they redoing all of the bosses, trash, loot, and stories for ZA and ZG? Mostly just reusing the setting?
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they redoing all of the bosses, trash, loot, and stories for ZA and ZG? Mostly just reusing the setting?


ZG almost has same bosses, just different loot and abilities.

ZA has 90% of the same bosses, with almost same trash, and 90% of the same abilities. Even their new end boss is just like zul'jin in terms of abilities.


After doing the content in PTR I can tell the desperation. I can see it in the encounters how this was a last minute decision to retain people, I guess catering to 10% of the playerbase is starting to have consequences for blizzard.
So basically what Blizzard is doing, is giving everyone who has been lazy in not clearing normal modes a chance to catch up to people who have actually worked their asses off to clear through the content.

Thanks Blizz, glad you can just throw all of my progression and work down the drain and make me 100% equal with the others again
#1- Why would a player hopping into this expansion late (I'm assuming you are talking about yourself here) have any bearing at all on what content the other 10 million people should have access to? How could you POSSIBLY experience it as challenging raid content when you enter the tier late and will be geared lower than your compatriots who will clearly have to carry you through it.

#2- Check my armory. I raid now. I'm not hardcore. I play well enough to rank sometimes on world of logs. I don't want to be carried, I just want the game to continue forward. I get no sense of self-worth from what I accomplish inside WoW. It's a video game, nothing more. It' value to me is how much fun I have when I log on and when I log off the rest of azeroth may as well stop functioning altogether.

#3- Since you are posting and getting personal with me, I have to ask if you are posting on an alt, because it doesn't appear you've accomplished ANYTHING this expansion except some big talking. Good luck experiencing raid content as it was meant to be since you'll be walking into a raid in blues and being carried through it by a bunch of people in epics.


Basing assumptions off one (of many) character's armory pages is weak. Allow me to stoop to your level. It seems the only raid content that you have experience (based on that character) outside of this expansion's one whole tier is Tiers 7 & 8. Based off that you've never experienced the tier flow of an expansion that wasn't considered a mistake (admitted by the designers themselves), so how can your opinion be taken seriously? This brings me to question the following quote:

THIS DOES NOT DESCRIBE WORLD OF WARCRAFT ANY MORE.


How can you say this when you appear to have no idea of how WoW used to be?

Just like every wrath baby out there, you think there has to be new content (and new opportunity for a cheap ilvl jump) the second people start clearing these instances on normal mode.

Carried? Do you know what I did in previous tiers/expansions? I spent the majority of my time re-running raids to help gear up my fellow guildies (who are also RL friends) so we were all on an even playing field. I passed on gear for the good of the guild when it was more of an upgrade to them. Don't you dare accuse me of using guildmates as a way to become a bottom feeder based off a simple armory check.

You say it's just a video game and it matters little to you, but it's just a video game enough for you to come onto the forums and have a rage and rant about them not making it how you want it to be made? Seemingly, you log on, you wipe a bunch of times, your rage, you log off, you check forums/blue trackers, then write up large walls of text and rage some more, then refresh the page looking for people to reply to your posts and rage again when people don't agree with you. Just a game, uhuh.

P.S. Interesting you should even check, let alone bash cata raid achievement progression when you haven't even cleared the normal modes of this tier.
03/04/2011 8:28 AMPosted by Killada
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they redoing all of the bosses, trash, loot, and stories for ZA and ZG? Mostly just reusing the setting?


ZG almost has same bosses, just different loot and abilities.

ZA has 90% of the same bosses, with almost same trash, and 90% of the same abilities. Even their new end boss is just like zul'jin in terms of abilities.


That's really disappointing to hear.

Is the timed run at least challenging or because it's tuned to 346 gear, it will be completely smashed by raiders?
It was clearly stated at Blizcon that we'd get 3 major content patches in cataclysm, 4.1, 4.2, and 4.3. By releasing 4.1 with no raid content and pushing it into 4.2 we're essentially losing 1/3rd of the raid content we expected to get when we purchased this expansion box.
This is one of the best decisions Blizzard has made in this game's lifespan. I think that the timing (and iLvL) of ToC was one of the biggest mistakes of WotLK, and it's really good to see some of that being addressed.

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