Vanguards Retribution Paladin PvP Guide 7.3

Paladin
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Thanks for the update, Vanguard.

My remarks earlier on gemming was a bit confused/incomplete.

Tense is the new purple (Str+PvP Power) cut, an option for blue gem slots, unless gemming straight PvP Power (the Stormy cut now that Spell Penetration is thankfully gone) is preferable for Ret?

Resplendent is still the orange (Str+Resilience) cut, an option for yellow gem slots, for which there is lacking anything particularly good for Ret to gem straight yellow anyway. Maybe haste (Quick) but, eh.

I prefer to match gem slots, particularly in my PvP gear, since the slot bonus is usually additional Resilience.

If one was NOT to gem for matching slots, would you recommend straight Strength gems (Bold) or straight PvP Power (Stormy)?
(That is, I have heard that Ghost Crawler has had it in for ret paladins ever since his frost mage got spanked by a ret pally in a duel.)

This sounds like a likely scenario. GC was all aggro one night and stepped outside sw on his realm to roflstop some scrubs using his precious mage. He approached some paladin and set down a duel flag.

After the duel the paladin spammed /hairflips on him and insisted that he l2p. The next morning they nerfed ret into the ground.


For what it's worth, a GM told me a similar (although shorter) story.
12/20/2012 11:53 AMPosted by Ambrosina


You should realize that what you've said here actually paints a rather negative picture about the OP. Your comments that Van doesn't help people "especially mid-season" implies he waits until the season is over. Knowing that most seasons are also separated by major coding changes, this implies that his help is largely... unhelpful... and self-serving in nature. Aka, he doesn't help anyone until he's had his fill of helping himself.

Miiiiight wanna be a tad more aware of the implications of your comments. It's obvious you were attempting to support the OP, but the implications of what you said did the opposite.


He answers questions almost daily on his stream, putting time aside between queues or when nothing is going on to respond to his viewers and their questions. Also, he is a player just like us. How is he "selfish" for not answering every tiny query of yours immediately? Be thankful he even posted a guide.


You should spend more time reading something in it's entirety. Then you'd be able to extrapolate the meaning better. For instance, you'd then see I was actually defending the OP from accidental negative implications.

While you on the other hand, went for the direct approach against someone that wasn't even attacking the OP.

Drp?
I feel for 5.1 Rets are one of the lesser viable specs.

Here's how I would currently rank PvP DPS classes at the moment: (In 3v3, in RBGs / 2s / 5s this would be completely different)
1.) Spriest and Ferals
2.) Warriors
3.) Mages and Hunters
--- The line where you are really wanted in arena teams and maybe wanted ---
4.) Warlocks and Enhance Shamans
--- The line where you become not wanted ---
5.) Boomkins, Rets, Rogues, Elemental Shamans
6.) Death Knights
7.) DPS Monks


I concur.

12/21/2012 02:08 PMPosted by Vanguards
Before healing nerfs I considered Rets to be pretty good (when PvP Power gave healing to the maximum). After 50% nerfs I considered Rets to be average; maybe slightly below average when you include every single spec in the game including Prots etc. After the complete nerf + 15% healing nerf, I would say Rets are one of the weaker specs in the game mainly cause they just can't survive anymore whether it's for themselves or for their teammates.


Yeah it has hit us pretty hard. Basically have to have a lock cookie to make a 3 hp WoG worth anything, or just pray you get a nice crit with it, or a string of DP procs. Oddly enough, I find DP to help with survival and spiking dmg more than holy avenger.

The principle problem I have with HA, is it is indicated in the logs and with PvP addons that will announce its use to your opponent. As a result, you can often get locked down when you employ it, similar to wings.
I'm confused about one thing. Since the pvp power nerf to healing, I feel that strength is stronger now. I'm not sure why I would gem pvp power when strength will increase my support capability and dps, not just dps.

Additionally, I don't know the extent to which pvp power interacts with strength (they appear to feed off each other, no?), but I feel that as one increases, the relative usefulness of the other increases also. For instance, if I had 100k dps with 50% pvp power on top of that, I would do 150k dps. Obv this is overly simplistic. But in this same situation, if I gain 5k dps from 500 str, I am actually gaining 7.5k dps in pvp.

I could be way off here, but it seems that since pvp power scales linearly (I think?) in this manner, it will magnify the benefits of strength. The question is, knowing this, how does strength compare point for point.
12/27/2012 11:24 PMPosted by Lovepony
Oddly enough, I find DP to help with survival and spiking dmg more than holy avenger.


Some people hate DP. It's not exactly reliable, after all. But for me, and apparently you as well, it procs often enough that its unexpected and unpredictable bursts of heals/dps can completely swing the outcome of a fight. I've gone from death's door to full health and beating down multiple opponents, thanks to that one talent.

...err, maybe I shouldn't have said that so loud...

For me, for whatever reason, what little luck I have in the game comes with procs. DP and my Strength proc-trinket always pop, so often in fact that I can always count on them when I need them. Other people, it seems, that stuff never procs. But then, those are the people that always win loot rolls in raids. I never do. lol
I've found the following in stat priority to yield strong returns:

Hit/Exprt 3% > Strength > Haste 10-11% > Crit > Resil > ..._50 ft of crap_... > Mastery
Come 5.2 we're getting +25% healing from PvP Power:

On live, PvP Power grants 0% healing to Balance, Feral, Windwalker, Retribution, Shadow, Enhancement and Elemental. In the next 5.2 build, this number will be 25% (or half of what a healing spec gets). We agree that PvP healing feels too weak for these hybrid classes. We also don't think Shadow really needs this buff, so we will likely offset it in other ways.


Looks like we'll be gemming PvP Power again.
Come 5.2 we're getting +25% healing from PvP Power:

On live, PvP Power grants 0% healing to Balance, Feral, Windwalker, Retribution, Shadow, Enhancement and Elemental. In the next 5.2 build, this number will be 25% (or half of what a healing spec gets). We agree that PvP healing feels too weak for these hybrid classes. We also don't think Shadow really needs this buff, so we will likely offset it in other ways.


Looks like we'll be gemming PvP Power again.

Dammit, I just regemmed resilience.

On the other hand, woohoo!
Can I just say this to new Rets:

DO NOT USE EXECUTION SENTENCE!

It can be dispelled, it's negated by Cloak of Shadows, Divine Shield and Ice Block. MoP is not a faceroll fest anymore. It's useless.

I see so many Rets using this. I haven't seen a single ES actually connect to me with the last tick.
God we are bad in high end pvp
I'm sorry if this is not in the spirit of the thread.

but, I faced Vanguards this evening in 5v5's...

And, It was an honor to have been crushed by the great one.

Ret Pride!
thanks van ;)
Is the gain from stacking haste as ret in PvP that much? Looks like Van is stacking it.

I've been holy for a while so I don't know what's going on
I don't see where you think our damage output is "okay" or above average... I don't think it is.
Vanguard! What is the verdict over Retribution and Seal of Justice, like to see your honest opinion about it. thankyou!

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