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Which part is without proof? The fact that they have many return customers? Their forums populated with long time members who have used their software without issue? I know a few people on both the servers I play who have used and continue to use "pvpTool". Trying to say it's a virus and a back door to your account info is lying and disinformation.

Picking up a bot from Megaupload, Rapidshare, Torrent sites and other similar services is what nets you a virus.


Yeh, so do most bots/cheats used in many popular games. The person providing said services (pvpTool) has no reason to steal account information. He makes money from his services, which is a splendid service indeed. Why how much? Lets do some math shall we?

$21 for the basic package. If you want the elite that number jumps up to $35. If you want the premium package you'll be forking over $29, $42, $56 or $92 for 30 days, 90 days, 180 days or Lifetime use of the premium services. If you want the Archaeology bot the prices is $35. Plenty of people have paid for his services, he provides continued updates and new features. Say he gets 5000 people to pay for just his elite service, we have....$175,000.00 (about) Say only 2000 Paid for the elite, 2500 basic and 500 for 30 day premium. Our new total is...$137,000.00 I guess that IS chump change when you can get account information and ninja gold.

Surely he would have gone under if he were stealing accounts by now? Maybe he's having Ninja Assassins killing anyone who dares share his dark secrets?

His 120,000 Forum members seem to have other ideas about his program and services

He's actually confident enough in his products that he even provides a free fishing bot, from what a guildie tells me, works really well. So yeah, I guess the evidence against him really does outweigh the evidence for him, well, his services.

It's actually not illegal in the least. You should probably get that idea out of yer head. As for being upset? Not really, I just dislike blatantly wrong information. It's like saying you're a 3 time gladiator on that toon. Naturally there is much evidence against that.
Narliaola, you seem to know an awful lot about a program you never even looked at yourself and surely would never use, being such an advocate of Blizzard's high standards, right?

By your own admission, you speak from only knowing those that used it. You certainly have no idea who had issues, who was hacked or who these so-called happy customers are on his site posting. For all you know, they could be him trying to build up his own reviews.

Surely, without having the material in front of you, you wouldn't know what he wrote, would you? You definitely wouldn't know that he admitted to being able to hack into his customers computers either, right? And you certainly wouldn't know that he could cut off a simultaneous IP accessing a copy of the program to make sure that no one could possibly obtain a bootleg of it on Megaupload, Rapidshare or Torrent. But um.. yeah, he can do all that and guess what? He admits it.

I had to laugh at the part where he almost pleadingly expected the customers to believe the line where he told the idiots to enter their account names and passwords but not to worry because he "IN NO WAY INTEND TO DO YOU ANY HARM". And if they still didn't trust him, just enter the account and his program will find it or some such nonsense I can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to do.

The rest of what you wrote is really just an advertisement for a hacker despite your disclaimer on how you feel about bots. I honestly wasn't convinced, sorry. You sound defensive and protective of this hacker and very much on the offensive against Malgad. Because if Malgad's warning is correct, people may not buy this hacker's new update which I hear is coming soon. If I were the author and/or people behind this hacking tool, I'd be pretty upset myself in what Malgad to say. Except I'm not upset, but you are. hmmm...

I also suggest you take a course in law. It's very much illegal to tamper with someone else's copyrighted intellectual property. Furthermore, I'll take that a step further and tell the people that bought it that he has broken the law by putting malware on their computers as well, which is a separate actionable offense.

There are literally countless accounts that have been hacked, their characters stripped and gold mailed off to a well-oiled machines. But the people who bought the cheats would have to be pretty stupid to believe that a hacker, who put malware on their computers, had nothing to do with it.

I've already suggested to the group I spoke with last night, that they package up the entire thing and send it to Blizzard, putting out only minimal information on the forums to warn people of what's going on. I never expected that someone would come here and attempt to paint a hacker as some sort of honorable cheater and expect people to actually believe it.

No. This guy is no good. He's a scam artist on top of being a no good, rotten hacking thief who obviously isn't as great as he claims he is because the whole lot of them got caught. And now they're banned. I rest my case.

I was playing my Horde Warrior in 70-75 bracket of Alterac Valleyand encountered the same player AFK in 12+ back to back games. Spamming BG chat I was able to repeatedly get this player flagged each game, but try as we might he/she would still not get kicked, even though this player had 0 damage and 0 heals from being in the cave. I opened a ticket and to my suprise a GM responded within minutes, even though the ticket said it'd be 10+ hours. I explained the habitual AFKing of this player game after game, staying in the cave and doing absolutely nothing other than spamming a key, macro or 3rd party software. Well, it's the next day, same player again AFKing. Funny thing is, that if I were to Curse prolifically in trade chat I'd receive a stern warning or temp ban. I do not understand why Blizzard does not approach this as an issue of grieving. These Habitual AFKrs are lessening my gameplay experience and enjoyment. I've been in games and have managed to get 8 AFKrs in the cave flagged and removed only to have them replaced by another 8 AFKrs. That's 1 in 5 or 20% of the team AFK! These people need to have their Battleground privelages revoked for a day, week, month, year or "lifetime". To all of you that Exploit and habitually AFK, do us all a favor and GDIAF.
Really? One would think with my knowledge that I have looked into it. Oddly enough I never said I hadn't.

You're right, I don't have any first hand experience and have no interest in botting. I do however doubt that 300,000 posts on his forums were made by him and a handful of his friends. As well as the many users on several other sites that swear by his software. Maybe the creators of Glider were stealing account info too?

Preventing the use of copies of a bot has nothing to do with the spread of malicious software via Rapidshare, Megaupload, and Torrents. The idea that people don't do this is laughable.

I've been looking and the only evidences of "hacked accounts" comes from people claiming they were hacked. In fact almost all of what I could find in the last month were victims of a botting banwave. The bot associated with it was the Archaeology bot, which shows Blizzard has stepped up their game. As for account losses all I can find was a report from early to mid 2010. Apparently using non-authenticated versions of the software (Cracked or stolen) will end up submitting your account information to the author. All other claims I have found across more than 20 websites are contrary to all "regular" user experiences.

As for being defensive and protective, hardly. He has a business that offers services/products. Thus he is working in a market. Becoming slanderous and making claims against him rubs me wrong. I also didn't provide any disclaimer on how I felt about it. I honestly don't care if someone decides to bot quest leveling or gathering. I do kinda dislike bots in BG's if only due to the fact they're easy to kill/fool.

For the legalese of the situation I have not found any conclusive evidences of violation of Copyright laws pertaining to bots. The closest and latest involved the claim by Blizzard that by using a "bot" it made an illegal copy of World of Warcraft (thus infringing on Copyright laws) in system memory. This [case] was in relation to Glider. Blizzards claim that it was a violation because it did so to avoid Warden. The legality is still up in the air so far as I can tell with a multiple year battle between MDY Industries and Blizzard. Is botting a breach of the ToU? you betcha.

You give a programmer an oddly lofty position of "hacker" though, by definition Blizzard is full of hacker(s) "3. : an expert at programming and solving problems with a computer". As for my "... attempt to paint a hacker as some sort of honorable cheater and expect people to actually believe it..." You seem to have missed my point. Misinformation is something I dislike. It feels the same to me as jumping in a forum and claiming that Jailbreaking your phone gives your email information, passwords, phone number and SSN to the software designers who made the Jailbreak (Say geohot of recent Sony legal battle fame). Correcting falsified information isn't paining the program creator as a hero or victim nor is it trying to convince people that they are such things.

You may dislike him very much but that doesn't change outright making up false claims.
This guy is no good. He's a scam artist on top of being a no good, rotten hacking thief who obviously isn't as great as he claims he is because the whole lot of them got caught. And now they're banned. I rest my case.

From all I could find the recent wave of bans (as listed above) were due to the Archaeology bot (His support forums, MMOwned as well as sever others support this). If I were to guess it would be due to code injection or manipulation for finding artifact positions when using survey. When performing such actions it is very easily detectable (See PunkBuster/VAC Bannable offence lists).
03/20/2011 9:13 AMPosted by Narliaola
As well as the many users on several other sites that swear by his software.

I don't know who you are but, the 300,000 fools who you claim "swear by his software" should know that his code was cracked by a bunch of kids last month. Perhaps your hacker friend shouldn't have DDOS attacked the script-kiddies after (quote) "sending in spies" (unquote), who in turn ratted him out and well, like I said before -- it's a game within a game. A game your buddy just lost big time.

Preventing the use of copies of a bot has nothing to do with the spread of malicious software via Rapidshare, Megaupload, and Torrents. The idea that people don't do this is laughable.

He prevents duplicate connections to his server using unique key codes. He also requires live connections to his server in order to hack Blizzard's game. That in and of itself is what's laughable, not to mention everything else he expects access to. Ask Glider how legal that was for him. HA! That wasn't her point anyway. Her point was that the virus I was talking about wasn't coming from a cracked torrent copy, it was coming from this botting program. But I think you knew that. You're just changing the subject hoping people wouldn't freak.

I've been looking and the only evidences of "hacked accounts" comes from people claiming they were hacked.

Oh believe me. There's going to be a lot more evidence but I think I'll let Blizzard decide what everyone should or shouldn't know. It's not my game to make that call. I made a valid warning based on the evidence I was shown, which is more than what you know.

As for being defensive and protective, hardly. He has a business that offers services/products.

I'm just gonna like tune this out now. There you go again with the "services/products" baloney. There's nothing consumer-friendly about it. If you installed this software, this guy has access to your computer and your account info. Don't cry later you were doubly screwed because you trusted the snake not to bite.

All you're doing is trying to give botters a warm and fuzzy feeling to return to this site and purchase the next version, when the truth is, this guy is selling crap that's already been cracked. When he doesn't get his next wave of money from this version, he'll make up for if he just takes the account and strips it for all it's worth. He's in another country. It's no skin off his back how he gets it either.

TL;DR version: If the ones who weren't banned had any sense in their heads, they'd get it off their computers, buy an authenticator immediately and salvage what remains of their WoW careers and definitely not listen to you.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just the messenger.

If anyone sees HumanTorch floating around, have him get in touch with me in-game please. Thanks.
Pro Tip: 300,000 is the number of posts. 120,000 is the number of people with forum accounts. How many are paying members is unknown to me. I'm not sure who you feel is my "buddy" (Are you referring to Gatherbuddy or Honorbuddy?)

The "virus" in question? Yeah, I managed to find exactly...nothing. A few false positives but nothing beyond that. Out of 15 Malware/Virus scanners, 3 identified incorrectly, pretty good. Given the way that the program works you're bound to run into this.

Please, show this "evidence" to the public. I'm quite curious about it. No need to be coy about it.

You make an odd point, many people use the program(s) in question, say they're great, have good support and free updates. How is that not consumer friendly? As for the security of account information that really comes down to the users, if they bot they know they run a risk and are willing to act on that risk.

Cracked or not it has already been put together with "features" to dissuade use of a cracked or pirated version. How so? it appears to send account information as well as other pertinent information back to him. How well this works is unknown to us. In another country indeed, glad you've managed to glean that much.

So, your TL;DR works out to roughly "If you have this program or others like it, you run an increasing risk of having your account permanently banned. Follow recommended account safety guidelines from Blizzard, the "bot" provider and the community!"

But hey, what do I know? I'm just the researcher.

If anyone sees Mrfantastic floating around, have him get in touch with me in-game. Thanks.
Grant of a Limited License to Use the Service

Subject to your agreement to and continuing compliance with the Blizzard Agreements, you may use the Service solely for your own non-commercial entertainment purposes by accessing it with an authorized, unmodified Game Client. You may not use the Service for any other purpose, or in connection with any other software.

Additional License Limitations.

The license granted to you in Section 1 is subject to the limitations set forth in Sections 1 and 2 (collectively, the “License Limitations”). Any use of the Service or the Game Client in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of Blizzard’s copyrights in and to the Game. You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:

A. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the World of Warcraft experience;

B. exploit the Game or any of its parts, including without limitation the Service, for any commercial purpose, including without limitation (a) use at a cyber cafe, computer gaming center or any other location-based site without the express written consent of Blizzard; (b) for gathering in-game currency, items or resources for sale outside the Game; or (c) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling;

C. use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, “mines,” or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information about a character or the game environment; provided, however, that Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces;

D. modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Game Client or the Service in any way not expressly authorized by Blizzard;

E. host, provide or develop matchmaking services for the Game or the Service, or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard in any way, for any purpose, including without limitation unauthorized play over the internet, network play, or as part of content aggregation networks;

F. facilitate, create or maintain any unauthorized connection to the Game or the Service, including without limitation (a) any connection to any unauthorized server that emulates, or attempts to emulate, the Service; and (b) any connection using programs or tools not expressly approved by Blizzard;

G. violate any applicable law or regulation in connection with your use of the Game Client or the Service; or

H. disrupt or assist in the disruption of (i) any computer used to support the Service (each a “Server”); or (ii) any other player's Game experience. ANY ATTEMPT BY YOU TO DISRUPT THE SERVICE OR UNDERMINE THE LEGITIMATE OPERATION OF THE GAME CLIENT MAY BE A VIOLATION OF CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LAWS.

03/20/2011 3:22 AMPosted by Budliight
hmmm Bud light tasty

Well, maybe if the fix had come 2 or 3 years ago, we woulda sprung for something better.

The bit about disabling antivirus is stupid anyway, most AV programs are too dumb to know what's an actual threat, so it's still just hearsay whether there is or isn't a backdoor. Leatrix Latency Fix requires AV off too, and it's just changing TCP-ACK settings.
03/15/2011 6:17 PMPosted by Bashiok
We’re in the process of stepping up our detection and tracking to log and action players that are botting, or habitually AFKing in the Battlegrounds. We’ll be taking aggressive action and removing earned items, Honor Points, and ultimately suspending or even banning accounts of those that are found to be botting or habitually AFKing. It’s a sophisticated level of monitoring we’re undertaking. No one actively playing in the Battlegrounds normally should be concerned that they’ll be actioned.

Glad to see you are working on the problem. Will your detection method catch multi-character bot squads?

Last week I teamed with a couple of friends for a random BG. We were sent to Arathi Basin. A few minutes into the game we realized that 5 of the people in the BG were actually one guy, 5-boxing/botting. It was easy to see because his group was all clumped together on auto follow. His group would cap a flag and move to the next node. His group never seriously engaged the enemy. It just ran around the battlefield in a mindless clump... died as a clump, rezzed as a clump, lather rinse repeat.

When my friends and I noticed, we mentioned it in BG chat. We said there was no point to the game if nobody was going to defend and if we had this mindless goon squad running around. We were thanked for our observations by getting /ignored /reported, rather than anybody taking a moment to actually look at the map and watch this 5-man bot team.

Needless to say we lost the game. Losing one game out of hundreds is no biggie. Losing to poor sportsmanship is.

@ Nocturna

Aliandrina is not me,
I can prove that or you can ask a Blizz GM.
Accusing me of being somone im not to cause grief/harassment and spam/toll, linking your
gear? lol. Thats off topic of this Fourm. Your post has nothing to do with Bots/Afk'rs. I made several valid points about the fourm topic if you dident understand or dont agree? No need to Flame my post... I see you might be confused, My intent was not to spam, or lock/disrupt the fourm in any way.
03/20/2011 10:50 AMPosted by Narliaola
Please, show this "evidence" to the public. I'm quite curious about it. No need to be coy about it.

You mean you want me to show YOU when it's Blizzard's game.

1. You have a bot program that's been cracked by the kids. This can be readily proven by just a little investigation on your part just as others did. Show me where I lied again? I did no such thing. It's a fact.

2. The hacker became the hacked. No surprise there. It's just funny it was done by a bunch of kids who didn't want to pay the $10 or whatever it was. That should give you a clue how weak the skills your buddy has. And now those kids are gunning for your buddy because he DDOS attacked them after spying on them and confirming that they were hacking his crap.

3. So now you have bad blood among hackers ripping into each other's hardware and what's on this hardware that affects you -- the dumb buyer? Your IP address, your account info and all sorts of good stuff besides just WoW that's up for grabs by any script-kiddie who wants to be a pita.

Bottom line: The pvpbot tool put a backdoor virus on every computer that installed it. You say that's a lie. I say it's the truth. When HumanTorch verifies just a couple things we were given, he'll be the 3rd confirmation we were looking for and I'll send it off to Blizzard. He's a REAL person you dolt. You don't come here much, do you?

You haven't proven anything or added anything to this discussion that helps people understand how they were hacked or will be hacked shortly or what's really going on in the battle grounds.

The "virus" in question? Yeah, I managed to find exactly...nothing. A few false positives but nothing beyond that.

Nah, you just don't know what you're doing or talking about, but thanks for admitting that you're a buyer of hacker material. You should be banned permanently. It's people like you who ruin this game.

# What if I'm just not in the mood to play? Battlegrounds are hard, and I'd much rather just sit in a tower and make daisy chains. If I'm not using automation software, is this type of behavior okay?

No. Each battleground—Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin, Alterac Valley, Eye of the Storm, and Isle of Conquest—contains within it a set of prescribed objectives which must be achieved in order to win. As winning matches is the intended purpose (or end goal) of our battleground system, refusing to participate in the completion of these objectives is considered a violation of policy. This applies whether or not automation software is enabled.

Authority leads and misconceives understanding....therein we find the graveyard where logic and reason bury themselves out of self titillating delight.

So that is Blizzards intepretation of their TOS, not the TOS you sign up to.

No wonder no one gets banned; BOT or AFK. Its subjective and does not reference a contractual obligation that a player has agreed to in clicking their TOS agreement.


Reaching back two whole pages for this one...

Actually, all of the above is in the ToS we "sign up to".

This all falls under following "The spirit of the game" (refer to the Code of Conduct section of the WoW Terms of Use). Yes, this is a bit of a gray area, but they do it this way to avoid listing every little item that could go against how they feel the game should be played. They'd need a ToS the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica to cover all that.

Certain things are considered a given in this game. If you group with people to do a dungeon, you are expected to at least try to help those people complete the dungeon. The same goes for BG's. When you enter a BG, you are expected to at least try to help your team win the BG. AFK'ing obviously does not follow these expectations. Bubblykiss's quoted statement about "Each battleground..." touches on this quite nicely.

They've also stated, numerous times, that non-participation in a BG is not, shall we say, a kosher play style. They have, in the past, taken a wide variety of actions against people that were habitual AFK'ers. Anything from warnings and stripping gear, all the way up to temp bans and even perma-bans for repeat offenders. How can there be any confusion about whether or not Blizz can take action against it?
I've had it with battlegrounds.. Way too many afker's, get rid of one here comes another one. It's to the point that it's no long any fun,

Blizz can stick the bg's and will soon do the same with my account. Done!!!!
Well that's a good thing...gonna miss guiding that bot in EoS off the map when I get stuck with them following me.....
03/20/2011 7:09 AMPosted by Nito
I was playing my Horde Warrior in 70-75 bracket of Alterac Valleyand encountered the same player AFK in 12+ back to back games.

I also noticed that the bots are able to stay in games, meanwhile, one of our guildies got flagged with afk maliciously and removed from the game rather quickly.

Really bad implementation of this system, Blizzard.
4 or 5 years ago when you ticketed a gm a few minutes or a hour or so later a gm would whisper you, conversation followed and then blizzard would check out the afker or some guy using a leveling service and within hours that guy would be gone.

Nowadays we all know what happens, False assurances that a investigation and action will follow.

It could be that wow out grew blizzards ability to service or maybe the people who are currently in control of wow only care about rolling out expansions. Whatever the reason, there is no question that blizzard or whoever currently owns wow has turned the in-game customer service into a response generating bot.
Now if blizzard actually did investigate and action the accounts like they say in the canned responses then fine but everyone knows by now that there is no investigation or action taken on the botters that get ticketed.

So where does that leave us now ? A blue post that keeps people hanging on hoping that blizzard will finally address the pvp botting issue. Blizzard has been saying for years that they are working on it and every response to every ticket says they are on the job, and yet i really don't believe it anymore.
Blue response is the typical BS blue response they have been saying for years about afk's. I feel sorry for those who read it and felt some hope they are actually going to do something serious about it. "We mean it this time! We are going to look at this seriously! Really! Rest assured! Taking gear back!" They got that response macroed and pull it out once a year.
[Blizz Blue Responder] "We know, we know, we know already. We'll get on it as soon as subscriber checks stop coming. Now, have you paid this months fee? Awesome, now go do some PvE, we just spent like literally hours recoloring this old instance you've farmed 600k times two years ago."
This was the worst I have ever seen it. Happened about a week ago.

8/30 players in the BG were bot's.

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