High Level Guards Ruin World PVP

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It wasn't rewards that ruined pvp, it was giving pve rewards in a pvp zone. Pve players are attracted to pve rewards and may or may not want to participate in the pvp aspect of the zone (Tol'barad).

If you want to foster world pvp, give pvp rewards for doing pvp activity in a pvp zone.
High level guards didnt ruin pvp.... battlegrounds ruined pvp. World PVP could only exist if there was a great incentive but even those have failed because of the way they were designed. Sand Buckets in Silithus anyone? The bottom line is that world pvp as you want to portray it will never exist. There will never be glory like the good old days of Tauren Mill, Southshore, and Crossroads. Now everything is controlled PvP, where you are put in a fight, instead of going to a fight.

So in other words, World PVP died a LONG time ago...
03/17/2011 3:30 PMPosted by Jackise
Remember back in the day when a group of horde would pillage a town and you could not quest. Blizz doesn't want it that way.


Neither do us players on servers who are outnumbered 12:1.
03/17/2011 4:10 PMPosted by Bashiok
Why would anyone spend any amount of time just pushing back and forth for no reason when you can spend your time toward actual rewards and character improvement? Maybe there are some of you, but I guarantee it'd be short lived.


Please reconsider this view in the light of Rated Battlegrounds. Why would anyone want to spend time with tiny single-point wins for ultimately no rewards when there are other things you can do that actually improve your character further? Maybe there are some rewards (like Grand Marshal), but they'll be short lived.

I want to play the game without some jerk deliberately trying to ruin my gaming experience for their personal amusement. I still think blizz that you should pay a visit to the homes of the griefers (mind you i said griefers here not gankers, there's a difference) and show them RL griefing, lol. :)
Ah right, I forgot we were playing World of PvEcraft.

The last time I did world pvp we decided to decimate Xroads. One of the lowbies happened to have the guild tag of one of the major horde guilds on the server, so I told people to take extra care to blow them up. Sure enough a few minutes later they disappeared and 5 80s showed up and it was crazy fun. I don't World PvP because I can kill lowbies and they can't fight back, I world PvP because one of those lowbies is going to hop on their main and I'm going to try and camp the living s$%^ out of that main.

The best I can think that you could do is create a specific world PvP zone where you don't allow flying mounts, give some objective to tug-o-war over, and so you can justify giving some semi-meaningful rewards and keep people interested you'd need to find some way to even up the sides (because world PvP is inherently going to be unfair). I think you do all that and you probably have the best working solution for bringing back world PvP.


Implying that TB is in anyway decent or actually world PvP rather than some @@##ty outdoor BG.
Hrm, I reckon it's rewards that ruined world PvP. Everyone harkens back to TM/SS as the holy grail of world PvP, and that was before and maybe slightly after the honor system was implemented (but before real rewards existed from it). I think you can encourage world PvP all you want, and if there aren't rewards behind it you'll keep people interested for about as long as it takes them to realize there are other things to do that give real power increases. Why would anyone spend any amount of time just pushing back and forth for no reason when you can spend your time toward actual rewards and character improvement? Maybe there are some of you, but I guarantee it'd be short lived.

I mean shoot, you have Isle of Quel'Danas or even quest hubs in Cataclysm where people are literally forced together, and there's complaints that they just want people to stop PvPing so they can get their stuff done so they can get their rewards. That's kind of unfair because I know many did enjoy those situations, but somehow it never meets the awesomeness of TM/SS, and I reckon it just never could again.

The best I can think that you could do is create a specific world PvP zone where you don't allow flying mounts, give some objective to tug-o-war over, and so you can justify giving some semi-meaningful rewards and keep people interested you'd need to find some way to even up the sides (because world PvP is inherently going to be unfair). I think you do all that and you probably have the best working solution for bringing back world PvP.

i c wut u did thar
Hrm, I reckon it's rewards that ruined world PvP. Everyone harkens back to TM/SS as the holy grail of world PvP, and that was before and maybe slightly after the honor system was implemented (but before real rewards existed from it). I think you can encourage world PvP all you want, and if there aren't rewards behind it you'll keep people interested for about as long as it takes them to realize there are other things to do that give real power increases. Why would anyone spend any amount of time just pushing back and forth for no reason when you can spend your time toward actual rewards and character improvement? Maybe there are some of you, but I guarantee it'd be short lived.

I mean shoot, you have Isle of Quel'Danas or even quest hubs in Cataclysm where people are literally forced together, and there's complaints that they just want people to stop PvPing so they can get their stuff done so they can get their rewards. That's kind of unfair because I know many did enjoy those situations, but somehow it never meets the awesomeness of TM/SS, and I reckon it just never could again.

The best I can think that you could do is create a specific world PvP zone where you don't allow flying mounts, give some objective to tug-o-war over, and so you can justify giving some semi-meaningful rewards and keep people interested you'd need to find some way to even up the sides (because world PvP is inherently going to be unfair). I think you do all that and you probably have the best working solution for bringing back world PvP.


This is so far off from designing good world PvP. You have an ability for Tol Barad to be a good world PvP zone, but instead there are guards all over the place that one shot you. People need reasons to want to fight other players. Getting Ganked or Camped is a very strong reason, but yet you've chosen to eliminate these penalties.

If the super strong guards were eliminated, you'd see the bases of both sides get attacked. That would draw out people who wanted to engage in world PvP to defend and attack them. The reward... punishing the other guy who interrupted your questing.
make honorable kills outside of arena/bg give a couple conquest points or rating or something each, varied by the level of the guy you kill

if people on pvp servers dont want world pvp in their quest zones, switch to a pve server or group up for defense?

(i'm on a pvp server that hasn't had world pvp in years :( )
03/17/2011 4:10 PMPosted by Bashiok
Hrm, I reckon it's rewards that ruined world PvP.

Sounds like you missed the point. There are people willing to do world pvp, but the guards prevent them from doing so.
I find it very sad that most of the responses in this thread, including Bashiok, managed to ignore the main point of the OP and just argued the subject line.

High Level Guards are a disincentive to world PvP. All other attractions, rewards, battlegrounds, city hubs, queues, are competing incentives to world PvP. High Level Guards will stop you from engaging in world PvP if you happen to be nearby when a fight breaks out, or looks like it might. I don't think anybody is planning to bring back the days of Hillsbrad battles, just by eliminating all other more interesting things that one could do.

The OP is speaking primarily from the perspective of a leveling character. Most of the replies are coming from 85s who think outgearing guards makes it a nonissue, or who think this the OP is requesting Blizzard makes it easier for high level players to attack low level players.

The main issue is about level-appropriate world PvP content, and how spawning a high level guard in response to any enemy player turns away all but the well-geared level 85s.

I made a post proposing pretty much the exact same solution as the OP did a few days ago. Level appropriate guards. If you look at the current system, the only way two players could engage in pvp inside the town of one of the players is if the attacker is level 85 with good gear. That's the only case where the attacker will be able to fend off guards. The the player inside his own town doesn't need to be level 85, he just needs to be flagged. Now tell me, what are the odds that two opposing level 85 characters will be flagged inside the town of a leveling zone? Almost none. The current system says "nobody can engage in pvp in this zone unless there are no worthwhile targets for you to find here."

Years ago, you could have players in Ashenvale attacking Astranaar and Splintertree Post, while still in the appropriate level range for that zone. Today, you either get a powerful 85 wiping out the town by himself, or you get battles that take place between 85s in Cataclysm zones.

The level of the guard who spawns needs to be appropriate to the level of the player who provokes him. (Down to a minimum level of the level of the pre-placed guards). I really don't understand why people have so much difficulty understanding the point that's being made. If Blizzard wanted to make killing questgivers impossible, they'd just make them unattackable.

Edit: to those concerned with exploiting rooftops and otherwise constantly evading guards, most guards now have ranged attacks, designed specifically for those circumstances. It's the ranged attacks actually that make the issue most frustrating. If you get killed y a high level guard, and you rez, he shoots you before you can take 3 steps to get away. The guards should only shoot when they can't find a ground path, or when the ground path involves taking an indirect route with lots of bends that would be significantly longer than a strait line.
03/17/2011 5:29 PMPosted by Marathel

Sounds like you missed the point. There are people willing to do world pvp, but the guards prevent them from doing so.


Lol no.

In cities there is a so so point but a place without guards? In a wildly imbalanced server or where one is outnumbered 10 to 1...

Horde or Alliance who are bored would swarm that and gank lowbies nonstop.
bring back dishonorable kills, but make them not punish you for npc kills this time
[first part of post removed]

03/17/2011 5:31 PMPosted by Sephres
bring back dishonorable kills, but make them not punish you for npc kills this time

Ugh, dishonorable kills were a disaster. I'm sure a low level player would take advantage of this by intentionally standing in the way of a raid to grief the attackers and make them accidentally get a dishonorable kill. I had 2 lifetime dishonorable kills when the old system existed. Each time one of them happened, there was a @%#@storm in the raid, and the group disbanded.
bring back dishonorable kills, but make them not punish you for npc kills this time



No, if you (not the person im quoting, im talking in general) can't handle pvp, stop crying and go to a PvE server,
If the Alliance win TB how come the elite guards are on the bridge a second after it ends but if the Horde takes it our guards are on a coffee break. I don't know how many times I've been killed on the bridge.
TB brings back world PvP. It can be a lot of fun. Many times have I come across hunters setting traps and waiting in camo for someone to come along then had good fights. Only to be destroyed by the guards that 3 shot me.

Well all 3 seconds of that was fun. Why are TB guards sooo powerful. It makes very little sense.

edit: Im all for having guards that attack and help kill but 3 shotting is absurd.

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