Marksman PVE Guide (4.1)

Hunter
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@Limdood It's all preference and latency. If you're playing with 200+ latency your actual haste values that you'll need to use the Chimera shot glyph to its maximum effect will be very high. Their's a more detailed discussion on Elitist Jerks concerning how much haste you should add to make up for your latency. A few hunters, notably Cev from vodka, are not using the chimera glyph and parsing well. Typically these hunters are still valuing haste>mastery however.

There was another post on Elitist Jerks about the difference between CS glyphing verse using Kill shot or Rapid Fire or Aimed shot in place of that glyph. The numbers are extremely close. It's merely a play style preference.
i'm curious as to a stat weight priority issue i've heard about, nearly equally, from tons of hunters - however, most of them aren't really able to tell me where THEY got it from.

the issue is:
crit + haste plateaus with hardcast aimed shot as a priority over arcane shot
vs.
Mastery + haste with arcane shot as a priority over hardcast aimed shot

#1 focusing on big hits, while #2 focuses on the haste+mastery synergy to make as many shots as possible to maximize the mastery effect.

what i've gathered from keeping my ears open around other hunters is that they're roughly similar and based on playstyle. Now, i freely admit that the other hunters might be full of $#@% and not know what they're talking about. I notice you've pushed the crit > mastery, but also arcane shot > hardcast aimed shot...is this just playstyle or will this always give consistently more dps?

OP, could you comment on this? are they pretty close or is what you propose in your guide just flat out better than either of these?

PS. Fantastic guide!


I fully acknowledge that the Hard Casted Aimed shot as your focus dump will yield the highest DPS in a completely perfect raid setting. However in this guide I suggest for newer or inexperienced hunters should get familiar with the arcane focus dump priority first. Because if you miss more than 3 hard casted Aimed shots over the course of the fight, the Arcane focus dump starts to even out or pull ahead. I thought for the audience of this guide that the Arcane Focus dump would be the best priority to suggest using, especially with how movement intensive some of the fights can be.

i think i was unclear as to my overall question, sorry (and thanks to everyone who took the chance to answer)...

what i really mean to ask was

crit vs. mastery?

a spec that focuses on hard hits, or huge auto-attack damage - obviously either way, haste is going to be a priority. is stacking mastery over crit viable, or is it just an exercise in mediocrity?
i think i was unclear as to my overall question, sorry (and thanks to everyone who took the chance to answer)...

what i really mean to ask was

crit vs. mastery?

a spec that focuses on hard hits, or huge auto-attack damage - obviously either way, haste is going to be a priority. is stacking mastery over crit viable, or is it just an exercise in mediocrity?


Maybe you miss-typed? Crit should always be the priority. Haste vs. Mastery debate depends on what level haste you're going for. If you play with low latency (50ms) but aren't using the chimera glyph, you're already focus positive for your rotation and mastery could get better benefit than haste. However in that situation the highest theoretical dps would be using the chimera shot glyph and reforging mastery into hit and haste.
When trying to decided between whether using Crit vs Haste or Mastery, consider all the things that Crit does. Crit does not just "make our shots hit harder". Take a look below for all the things Crit has an effect on:

MM hunters depend on crits for the following reasons:
• Our shots do more damage when they crit. Generally, our shots do twice as much damage when they crit. The exception to this is SrS ticks which do only the 50% base bonus damage for magical crits. Having a meta gem with the 3% crit damage bonus results in each of our crits doing even more damage.
• Our pets inherit our crit. Thus, how often our pet crits is dependent on how much crit we have.
• Our pets regain or conserve focus on our crits. Due to Go for the Throat and Sic’Em, our pets get focus benefits from our autoshot, AS, and AI crits. More focus for our pets result in more attacks and more DPS. It also results in a higher WH uptime, increasing pet DPS more.
• Crits of our CS, AI, and SS trigger the PS bleed effects for an additional 30% damage (39% if the target has the bleed debuff on it).
• Your pet’s crits on basic attacks provide the Culling of the Herd (CotH) buff increasing damage by 3% for you and your pet. More frequent crits result in a higher uptime of CotH.
• For Cunning pets, its crits allow your pet do perform Wolverine Bite.


I believe the sum of the things that crit provides far out weigh Mastery and wild quiver procs.

How do you guys handle movement fights, Aspect of the Fox, casting SS, etc.?
Pre planning movement and just general experience help me with movement fights. I raid with the nearly the same group of people very week, I can pretty much predict exactly where our tanks will be moving the boss and where I need to be at all times. It just becomes habit forming.

You will also develop a sense of comfort with the timing of the fight mechanics over time. A lot of the time it is just a rhythm thing for me. I know how many shots I can fit into a certian time period before I have to move out of fire. So I plan that ahead of time.

But as Mendia said, If I have to move for some reason and I will be moving for longer than one GCD, i will switch into Fox, cast a steady, get to my spot and immediately switch back to Hawk and resume normal DPS.

I have read where the hunter from Paragon (Devai or Kruf cant remember) will pretty much stay in Fox the entire time the first couple of pulls on progression fights to get a feel for when certain mechanics will force him to move.
A typical Shot Priority Cycle, while not under RF/Hero, will look like the following:

Chimera --> Arcane x2 --> Steady Shot x 5**
**This order is Flexible; you could do: SSx2 --> Arcane --> SSx3 --> Arcane


i usually do Chimera-->Steady Shot x 2-->Arcane x 2--> Steady Shot x 2-->Chimera

This seems to work well for me and if you get an instant aimed shot you can replace one of the arcane shots. Does anyone else do their rotation this way? Or am i losing dps by doing this?
A typical Shot Priority Cycle, while not under RF/Hero, will look like the following:

Chimera --> Arcane x2 --> Steady Shot x 5**
**This order is Flexible; you could do: SSx2 --> Arcane --> SSx3 --> Arcane


i usually do Chimera-->Steady Shot x 2-->Arcane x 2--> Steady Shot x 2-->Chimera

This seems to work well for me and if you get an instant aimed shot you can replace one of the arcane shots. Does anyone else do their rotation this way? Or am i losing dps by doing this?


Looking at your haste, you dont have enough to support a 5th steady shot Priority yet. You are doing fine with the priority you have mentioned. Although your priority appears to slightly focus Negative, meaning at some point you will have to fit in an extra steady shot and drop an arcane shot or delay your chimera shot slightly.

When you do get enough haste, you should fit an extra steady shot in as it will help keep your rotation slightly focus positive and produce greater DPS.

i usually do Chimera-->Steady Shot x 2-->Arcane x 2--> Steady Shot x 2-->Chimera

This seems to work well for me and if you get an instant aimed shot you can replace one of the arcane shots. Does anyone else do their rotation this way? Or am i losing dps by doing this?


Looking at your haste, you dont have enough to support a 5th steady shot Priority yet. You are doing fine with the priority you have mentioned. Although your priority appears to slightly focus Negative, meaning at some point you will have to fit in an extra steady shot and drop an arcane shot or delay your chimera shot slightly.

When you do get enough haste, you should fit an extra steady shot in as it will help keep your rotation slightly focus positive and produce greater DPS.


Is there anything you can recommend for my reforging? I am a little flustered about it because Reforgenator, which I had been using since before you recommended it tells me to reforge EVERYTHING to Mastery after the hit cap. I went to wowreforge.com but it seems to ignore the Haste plateaus.
04/12/2011 02:44 PMPosted by Mendia
Set Wowreforge.com to get your haste to a certain level. When I use it, I toggle 1400 Haste, minimum.


I'm sitting on 1152, 9.00% exactly (Although in-game I remember it being 12.5 ish % after 3/3 Pathing) and that is reforged basically entirely to Haste. O_o
04/12/2011 02:47 PMPosted by Volzear
Set Wowreforge.com to get your haste to a certain level. When I use it, I toggle 1400 Haste, minimum.


I'm sitting on 1152, 9.00% exactly (Although in-game I remember it being 12.5 ish % after 3/3 Pathing) and that is reforged basically entirely to Haste. O_o


You dont want to reforge everything to haste just to get to that plateau, that usually means sacrificing too much crit. You could back some down and use a different glyph besides the Chimera shot glyph. This would give you an extra second of haste that you could reforge out of.

This is kind of similar to back in Wrath when hunters would gem Armorpen too early. Its not always worth it to reach that plateau if you dont have have the gear to support it.
bump
Any chance we could get some more sticky requests and votes on this thread? Not that it is likely to help, but A for Effort right?

I went around checking a lot of the other class guides and noticed that in nearly all of them, all the posts on the guide were Highly ranked not just the first one.

So I went back and gave the "Thumbs up" to all 20 posts. Maybe this would help?

I dunno, I'm almost at a loss of words. This is the best presented/formatted guide we have had in the hunter forums since the release of Cataclysm and still cant get a sticky?
Thanks Steen.

And Mendia, I can assure you that if you had written a guide we would have made hundreds of backups and you information would have been re-posted immediately =]

As it was, you were instrumental in helping me create this guide. I appreciate/value all of your feedback as well as the rest of the hunter community.

If this doesn't get stickied, I wont be too upset, just from it being up here on the forums I feel like it has sparked a lot of good discussion and at least been somewhat beneficial to others who have read through it. That was my main intent anyhow was to just help others and share what knowledge I have of this class.

If nothing else it can still be used as a Q & A type thread until it gets post capped.

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