Old Wow

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I think it's funny people say "This game was so much harder back in pre-BC" when 90% of those people didn't even play then, or wasn't a level 60.

The fact is, the only HARD boss i could remember is Ragnoras, and Vaelastrasz. The content didn't require nearly as much coordination as raid encounters do today.

Let me clarify that the content back then was all about just telling 40 people to "Stand here" or "Stand there" - "Get the debuff, run over there" etc.
The massive amount of people is what made anything hard, the actual skill cap was low for the majority of the raid encounters compared to today, even compared to WoTLK. I don't know where people are making up this stuff.


EDIT:


The only thing I wish that today's content had that old world content had was huge events that happened, such as the opening of the AQ 40 gates. Many memories there. Horde and alliance worked their as** off to open the gates from the extremely long quest line, and when it was tiem to open them, it seemed as if half the realm was there to witness. I'm not sure why Blizzard hasn't tried to step in that direction - I believe more events such as this would bring back much interest to PvE and the whole game in general.



I remember the opening of the gates on my server it was awesome and your right the hole realm was there to watch those gates open it was insane and it was even a pvp server but no one was killing anyone while those gates opened
04/08/2011 04:55 PMPosted by Poppyseeds
I am hardcore...I want something I spend a lot of time at and no one else has.


Yeah well there are'nt enough of you guys to pay the Bills.

Wrath hard mode/heroic raiding was not easy. Less than 2% of raiding people killed LK H after more than 8 month beign current tier and with a 30% buff. Putricide reached 10% (again, with buff), alone in the dark wasnt achieved by too many people in their current tier. Sartharion 3D wasnt easy, especially in 10 man.

Problem is, too many people repeats the same idiot things so that others think they are pros.


The reason those numbers were that low is many people just didn't have the motivation to grind out that content again and again to get access to the same content only with tighter tuning and one or two new or slightly altered abilities. ICC was quite underwhelming and the gating that went on was paced in such a way that by the time the Lich King was available, people were already getting bored, so I really can't blame people for not wanting to go on to heroic content as again, its just more of the same place.

What I would propose, in fact I think its what a few people here have tried to propose is first of all add at least another difficulty for those of us in the middle, secondly and more importantly, don't tie difficulty level in with progression level, they should all be available with close to equal gear requirements and make the gear in the respective difficulties have a marginal stat disparity and a clear visual disparity. This should effectively provide prestige for the competitive, an adequate challenge from the start for those in the middle and accessibility for the "casual" player bases, that's how you'd go about pleasing everyone.

Even if they were just to keep the 2 difficulties and allow immediate access and relatively equal gear requirements, that would be good enough I think, I just wouldn't mind being able to go into readily accessible content that has a truly meaningful challenge, just, something...
The only one thing I miss from the old days is world pvp.
The reason those numbers were that low is many people just didn't have the motivation to grind out that content again and again to get access to the same content only with tighter tuning and one or two new or slightly altered abilities. ICC was quite underwhelming and the gating that went on was paced in such a way that by the time the Lich King was available, people were already getting bored, so I really can't blame people for not wanting to go on to heroic content as again, its just more of the same place.

What I would propose, in fact I think its what a few people here have tried to propose is first of all add at least another difficulty for those of us in the middle, secondly and more importantly, don't tie difficulty level in with progression level, they should all be available with close to equal gear requirements and make the gear in the respective difficulties have a marginal stat disparity and a clear visual disparity. This should effectively provide prestige for the competitive, an adequate challenge from the start for those in the middle and accessibility for the "casual" player bases, that's how you'd go about pleasing everyone.

Even if they were just to keep the 2 difficulties and allow immediate access and relatively equal gear requirements, that would be good enough I think, I just wouldn't mind being able to go into readily accessible content that has a truly meaningful challenge, just, something...

I can bet it's because it was that much harder. When my guild was 6/12 on complete farm status, we went back in and tried heroic, it was a significant jump in difficulty. We struggled at normal lich king for quite awhile. I had quit playing before we downed him. Those fights were hard enough, I didn't want to go back and do them on heroic because I preferred killing the easy bosses fast and going on to the harder bosses. By the end of the xpax, we were only 7/12 on heroic.

Ulduar heroic fights? Unforgiving. ToC heroic fights? More forgiving, but still a massive jump in difficulty over the non-heroic modes.

I think the reason people didn't go back and do the heroic content was because the frost badge gear was iLvL 264: there was no reason to do them unless you wanted the prestige of it. And that was enough for the hardcore raiders to still do it. For us "regular" raiders, we were content with 10 and 25 man normal modes and getting the 264 gear with badges.
Classic -> get an epic, you feel epic.
Cata - > get an epic.....its basically a common.


Motor Bike*<---

Archaeology/Raptor Mount*<-----(A real pain in the a** BELIEVE ME)

Vial of the Sands*<------(You do the math O_O)

BC<---Tempest Keep(Ashes of A'lar)<----(Very Big Pain in the A** O_O )

And im sure there are a few others i WOULD LOVE to be handed to me,but are hard as hell to achieve to get(Vial of the sands/Motor Bike maybe not so tough for the WEALTHY who have no life and play the a/h all day long to get a better deal so they can sell it for more)

Pleas Point out atleast 15+ plus people in all of world of warcraft who have Ashes of A'Lar
then ill admit you were right.

The End

04/12/2011 08:01 AMPosted by Kurnea
Then they aren't true gamers then and can stay there. A true gamer can adapt to any game and like it...


Just like you can't adapt to this expansion? The reason I'm saying they wouldn't be able to adapt is that FPS games typically don't have the kind of masochistic gameplay elements that Everquest and Vanilla WoW had. I'm sure getting off a headshot and what not will be difficult in terms of skill, but I doubt it will be as tedious and grindy as you guys would prefer. Thus you probably won't be able to adapt.

I mean come one, one of the common insults from the masochists is that WoW's turning into Call of Duty. I don't see those people appreciating an MMOFPS.


Since when did i say i couldn't adapt to this expansion? Damn kids these days, learn to read...

And i would easily prove to you FPS games are harder then RPG. Do you have a naxx40 Kel'thuzad kill? i doubt it since you probably were total nub back then or didnt play because you weren't a real warcraft fan. Those were the hardest raids and i still think they are easier then fps games.... Come play one and lets see how you do? You cant multi-game thats for sure.

Wrath hard mode/heroic raiding was not easy. Less than 2% of raiding people killed LK H after more than 8 month beign current tier and with a 30% buff. Putricide reached 10% (again, with buff), alone in the dark wasnt achieved by too many people in their current tier. Sartharion 3D wasnt easy, especially in 10 man.

Problem is, too many people repeats the same idiot things so that others think they are pros.


The reason those numbers were that low is many people just didn't have the motivation to grind out that content again and again to get access to the same content only with tighter tuning and one or two new or slightly altered abilities. ICC was quite underwhelming and the gating that went on was paced in such a way that by the time the Lich King was available, people were already getting bored, so I really can't blame people for not wanting to go on to heroic content as again, its just more of the same place.

What I would propose, in fact I think its what a few people here have tried to propose is first of all add at least another difficulty for those of us in the middle, secondly and more importantly, don't tie difficulty level in with progression level, they should all be available with close to equal gear requirements and make the gear in the respective difficulties have a marginal stat disparity and a clear visual disparity. This should effectively provide prestige for the competitive, an adequate challenge from the start for those in the middle and accessibility for the "casual" player bases, that's how you'd go about pleasing everyone.

Even if they were just to keep the 2 difficulties and allow immediate access and relatively equal gear requirements, that would be good enough I think, I just wouldn't mind being able to go into readily accessible content that has a truly meaningful challenge, just, something...


From 10% of putricide to 1.6% on LK because they got bored? I don't belive that's the real reason. Besides, you could activate some heroics and some not, so not, that's not the reason, i'm sorry, the reason was they were hard fights. The same happened with yogg saron, which was a challenge even to world firsts.

In the yogg saron case, i even remember top guilds claiming it was bugged like cthun was in vanilla, well, it wasn't, it was just hell hard.
Funny thing... it's good enough that everyone in this post still pays to play......

K
exactly thank you WOtLK bred players who thought they were good cuz it was so easy at that point. "Ya lemme get all the best gear in the easiest way possible and let me defeat encounters that have no mechanics and even then i cant do WotLK bosses" Its hard to sit here and listen to kids wine about how they need to nerf this game cuz its to hard for them. All in all it comes down to this. So far ive seen this game get so nerfed it makes it "fun and accessible" to the new and no so good players and it makes it boring and obnoxious for the players who have been here since vanilla WOW. Hell ive even met some------(key word) players that had just started in WotLk or even cata that are actually good because they use their brain and say this games way to easy now.
dont get me wrong though Cata has deff got its perks. I love it, yet you can tell since cata was released its been seaping down towards WotLK level, and i and im sure alot of people do not want that to happen.
04/12/2011 11:24 AMPosted by Kolgarth
exactly thank you WOtLK bred players who thought they were good cuz it was so easy at that point. "Ya lemme get all the best gear in the easiest way possible and let me defeat encounters that have no mechanics and even then i cant do WotLK bosses" Its hard to sit here and listen to kids wine about how they need to nerf this game cuz its to hard for them. All in all it comes down to this. So far ive seen this game get so nerfed it makes it "fun and accessible" to the new and no so good players and it makes it boring and obnoxious for the players who have been here since vanilla WOW. Hell ive even met some------(key word) players that had just started in WotLk or even cata that are actually good because they use their brain and say this games way to easy now.,exactly thank you WOtLK bred players who thought they were good cuz it was so easy at that point. "Ya lemme get all the best gear in the easiest way possible and let me defeat encounters that have no mechanics and even then i cant do WotLK bosses" Its hard to sit here and listen to kids wine about how they need to nerf this game cuz its to hard for them. All in all it comes down to this. So far ive seen this game get so nerfed it makes it "fun and accessible" to the new and no so good players and it makes it boring and obnoxious for the players who have been here since vanilla WOW. Hell ive even met some------(key word) players that had just started in WotLk or even cata that are actually good because they use their brain and say this games way to easy now.


Oh dear, my eyes have gone crossed.
04/12/2011 11:24 AMPosted by Kolgarth
exactly thank you WOtLK bred players who thought they were good cuz it was so easy at that point. "Ya lemme get all the best gear in the easiest way possible and let me defeat encounters that have no mechanics and even then i cant do WotLK bosses" Its hard to sit here and listen to kids wine about how they need to nerf this game cuz its to hard for them. All in all it comes down to this. So far ive seen this game get so nerfed it makes it "fun and accessible" to the new and no so good players and it makes it boring and obnoxious for the players who have been here since vanilla WOW. Hell ive even met some------(key word) players that had just started in WotLk or even cata that are actually good because they use their brain and say this games way to easy now.,exactly thank you WOtLK bred players who thought they were good cuz it was so easy at that point. "Ya lemme get all the best gear in the easiest way possible and let me defeat encounters that have no mechanics and even then i cant do WotLK bosses" Its hard to sit here and listen to kids wine about how they need to nerf this game cuz its to hard for them. All in all it comes down to this. So far ive seen this game get so nerfed it makes it "fun and accessible" to the new and no so good players and it makes it boring and obnoxious for the players who have been here since vanilla WOW. Hell ive even met some------(key word) players that had just started in WotLk or even cata that are actually good because they use their brain and say this games way to easy now.



So, 1.6% of raiders were people who played good and came from vanilla, and the 98.4% of the raiders were all newbies came from wrath? because that's the number of raiders that downed LK H IN WRATH, which is the so easy expansion.

Oh, and you are calling bad players to ENSIDIA, which were the ones that claimed yogg saron was imposible to kill like cthun was a few weeks before yogg wasdowned (if i don't recall bad, the guild that killed yogg was STARTS form asia).

WRATH WAS NOT EASY, statistics say so, and numbers don't lie, people do.

It's lame that some people that haven't done WRATH HEROIC content within its tier call wrath easy so that other people think they are pro.
I understand and respect gaming masochism. But, I think that changing mechanics to be more reasonable and less punishing is an improvement, not a detriment, to games in general. Many of us Original Gamers pine for the days of D&D-based yore when games were seemingly intended to break us down into sobbing masses created by an uncaring necromancer of pain and suffering, or at least didn't try to avoid it. Overcoming all of the obstacles (I CHOOSE NOT TO SHOOT HER WITH THE SILVER ARROW... NOOOOO) was a big part of what gaming (I HAVE 1 LIFE!?), and especially PC gaming (HOW DO I LOAD MOUSE DRIVERS?), were about. But, I feel we're lucky to now be in an age where those ideals (intended or not) are giving way to actual fun, actual challenge, and not fabricating it through high-reach requirements (I NEED A FAIRY MONK WITH A MAGIC LOCKPICK?).

What we've always been trying to do, what WoW has always been about (and to which much of its success is due) is to make an accessible MMO. Anyone that looks back at the game at launch and wishes it was as challenging now as it was then is not aware of the painstaking effort put into making this game accessible as compared to its predecessors. Since release we've refined that intent, eventually evolving the very few masochistic designs WoW actually ever started with, but ideally still offering those same prestige goals that give that feeling of achieving something great if you're able to pull it off. We've made a lot of progress toward striking that balance and continuing to evolve the game, but it's not something we're ever likely to perfect, and we'll be constantly working to hit that elusive goal. Hopefully it's to the benefit of everyone playing and enjoying the game, and they'll continue to enjoy the journey that a living, breathing, persistent universe will take us on.




That means: BOOOORING. I want the arrows and bullets back!
04/12/2011 10:22 AMPosted by Pinkyy
Since when did i say i couldn't adapt to this expansion? Damn kids these days, learn to read...


the Op couldn't adapt to this expansion, and you agree with the Op. Plus, I see your character is still only level one, I'd think if you could adapt you'd be able to kill a few mobs in this expansion.

04/12/2011 10:22 AMPosted by Pinkyy
And i would easily prove to you FPS games are harder then RPG.


Since when did I dispute this? I said FPS games generally don't have the grindy tediousness of old-school MMOs. I like challenge, skill based gaming, it's farming easy kills ad naesuem that I dislike.

i doubt it since you probably were total nub back then or didnt play because you weren't a real warcraft fan.

Most of Vanilla WoW I was living in Osaka and spending many of my weekends going out to Kyoto and Nara and hanging out with friends, so no, I don't have a 40 Naxx kill.

04/12/2011 10:22 AMPosted by Pinkyy
Come play one and lets see how you do? You cant multi-game thats for sure.


I've been playing FPS games since Blake Stone, kid. I used to play the original Quake with neighbors over dialup, and played Counterstrike not long after it first came out. Learn to read, buddy.
Man i miss 40 man raids.

Being one of the 10 other people not afk waiting for trash to be finished.

Man i miss old talents

Being forced into heal/tank as a hybrid as we only had one Tier set catered to just that and doing anything else required obscene effort.

Man i miss..no wait i don't miss any of that

quit living in the past
I don't think its so much the content changes that make it easier... I think its all the mods ppl use... contra was a hard game when it first came out until you got so fed up that you had to use the up,down,up,down... cheat code... and then you felt awesome that you beat the game... similar concept with mods... they aren't cheat codes but if you don't have skill without them you're just not that good of a player. threat mods are a great idea... but /assist on your tank works just as well... and if you do pull aggro off your tank.... run your butt to him and stop hitting/casting. so you sack some dps on the meters, big deal. Killing the mobs is way more easy than running all the way back + repairs.

not saying mods are bad... just saying most ppl would have to boost their player skills and pay more attention if they didn't use them. just like the old days

"mods make bad players better, attention span, listening, and skill make decent players great" ,I don't think its so much the content changes that make it easier... I think its all the mods ppl use... contra was a hard game when it first came out until you got so fed up that you had to use the up,down,up,down... cheat code... and then you felt awesome that you beat the game... similar concept with mods... they aren't cheat codes but if you don't have skill without them you're just not that good of a player. threat mods are a great idea... but /assist on your tank works just as well... and if you do pull aggro off your tank.... run your butt to him and stop hitting/casting. so you sack some dps on the meters, big deal. Killing the mobs is way more easy than running all the way back + repairs.

not saying mods are bad... just saying most ppl would have to boost their player skills and pay more attention if they didn't use them. just like the old days

"mods make bad players better, attention span, listening, and skill make decent players great"
lol hes mad

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