Old Wow

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(I CHOOSE NOT TO SHOOT HER WITH THE SILVER ARROW... NOOOOO) was a big part of what gaming (I HAVE 1 LIFE!?), and especially PC gaming (HOW DO I LOAD MOUSE DRIVERS?), were about. But, I feel we're lucky to now be in an age where those ideals (intended or not) are giving way to actual fun, actual challenge, and not fabricating it through high-reach requirements (I NEED A FAIRY MONK WITH A MAGIC LOCKPICK?).

What we've always been trying to do, what WoW has always been about (and to which much of its success is due) is to make an accessible MMO. .

bashiok is correct,although i have always pined for puzzles in wow. please introduce individual mind challenges.
blah blah blah..... blah blah blah.

The only thing that made it awesome was the 1st time experience of WoW. Like any drug though, no matter how much you use/abuse after that you will never get that original high again.

There's slightly more than that. Development has changed. In the beginning it was rewards based on time spent in game be it pvp or raiding. Now everything is approachable to everybody with little time sink required. This is where the entitlement fight normally begins in these threads. Also there's the server identity issues now. In vanilla/bc I knew lots of people on my server. Now with cross server dungeons I only really know my guild and a few others outside of it. It's not just the "drug" feel but a design change.

I just feel as though the point the game is at right now is almost arcadish in a lot of ways, which feels and seems really out of place in a role-playing game. The feeling of adventure is gone, and Azeroth as a whole feels like a decoration on top of a "queue and play" type of gaming system. Azeroth really doesn't even need to exist anymore. Outside of farming, there is little to no reason to even visit any other areas beside the capitals that, by the way, you are forced to spend most of your time due to certain things being non-existent in other cities. I liked the more open-sandbox feeling of BC, not the "let's rush and make everything super-fast and accessible so we can continue on with our incessant carrot chasing" mentality that has become WoW.

Just some random, early-morning, can't sleep thoughts.
04/08/2011 05:49 PMPosted by Bashiok
But, I feel we're lucky to now be in an age where those ideals (intended or not) are giving way to actual fun, actual challenge

Its reasons like this is the reason I have left the game. I have been playing since beta/04 and this past year have struggled with the decision to leave. Everything is too much easy mode now, they want to dumb things down. I rather enjoyed the more complex systems that we had. Ive said it a hundred times and I will say it again...badge gear and dungeon finders have been a complete determent to this game. Early cata release blizzard showed us a glimpse of making things more complex, with having the tanks gain threat before we started dpsing and making healers preserve mana and use good judgement with spells. However that lasted a month? Now were heading back into cheaper badge items, easier tanking, and even more easier healing. There are some features I admit that I enjoy but its the lack of complexity and the constant dumbing down of classes that has turned me away. There is no more individuality anymore and everything is so cookie cutter. Read some of the "Ghostcrawlers" blogs about blizzards ideas, and you can see they are just trying to make the game more simplex. I would have to say primarily because a lot of adult gamers are leaving, and they need to appeal to younger players to keep current revenue. WoW seems to be more of a social status now than about gaming. I really used to enjoy this game but not anymore. Everything is too easy, CMs act like jerks and teenagers half the time, and its obvious that they have a vision about this game that I do not share. Anywho thats my rant, my sub is up in may, and after 7 long years will be retiring from this game. Its been fun...
I did get a pretty decent sense of adventure when I leveled in some of the redeveloped zones. The leveling experience was well crafted. A bit more heroic than killing boars indefinitely for sure.
04/08/2011 06:23 PMPosted by Geppeto
TBC and Vanilla were what made raiding enjoyable now.

If you actually did raids on a hybrid during vanilla, you wouldn't be saying that.
it is sad to see what I would put so much time into (doing calculations, finding groups, having pride in what I did) is no longer in the game.

The fact that "playing the game" isn't on that list is telling. Theorycrafting and sitting in trade has given ways to learning to execute more complex bosses correctly, and the game is better for it.
So, you miss having to grind for months before you step into a raid? I guess you don't have alts.

I noticied you are a priest. I guess you also miss having pathetic dps and only being useful as healer? The same can be said about druids, paladins and shamans... What's the point of 3 specs if you only can use 1 of them?

Personally, after gearing a main toon and 4 alts, I am dead sick of heroics. Can you imagine if you had to grind for months to get gear? The LFD would take 2 hours because nobody would do heroics after gearing up their main toons. People that "love" to grind are people with no jobs and/or no life, that got nothing else to be proud about but their in-game character. That's not healthy and it's not what the majority player base consists of. And you know, a company gets to satisfy the majority, not the minority.

You want a challenge? Try to beat Heroic Al'akir. After you are done, I dare you say that Molten Core was challeging...
I loved classic WoW, but I would never, ever, ever consider going back to it. Ever. At all.

In fact, if I were to go back in time with the current knowledge I have of WoW -- knowing how much better it eventually gets -- I wouldn't even bother with classic. Hell, I started after Naxx was released (but well before TBC) and it had already turned into a grind (read: Not fun) by the time TBC hit.

In light of today's WoW, classic WoW has no redeeming qualities. It served its purpose and I hope we never regress.

I agree with this. Though I liked vanilla, I would not want to go back there. There was a lot of grinding to do to get places and I don't have the time for it now. I'm now married, working, going to college etc... I like the way the game has evolved. I look forward to it getting better with hopefully each patch and expansion.
04/08/2011 05:49 PMPosted by Bashiok
What we've always been trying to do, what WoW has always been about (and to which much of its success is due) is to make an accessible MMO.

And Blizz was doing great on this front right up until Cat. Now what they are about is, if you don't have at least 2 hours then don't bother logging on because their isn't anything here for you to do(well fun anyways, plenty of grindy crap to do for very little reward). When they decided to make dungeons retardedly long, they screwed the pooch. When they decided only 3 regular dungeons at 85 with crap loot lists was enough, I don't know what they were smokin. Then when they finally decided to add some more dungeons, they said despite there only being 3 regulars were only going to add heroics, and we are going to allow players to queue for those separately.... Yeah that's a good way to make sure there are no more tanks queing for regulars and pre 4.1 heroics. Hey Blizzard this word of yours "accessible", I do not think it means what you think it means.
Bashiok i agree.. not completely, but ill give you 90%.

That 10%.... ammo. i will NEVER forgive you guys for removing ammo.

Nerfing a legendary!

AND above all things!

After the new ammo for ICC, unforgivable.
I personally say... down the the blue poster!

I enjoyed wow's mechanics much more at launch than I do today.
The challenge in Vanilla was staying awake during MC. You have just gotten old. The game wasn't any better, it was just uglier, had less options, and there was less to do.

Nostalgia =/= quality
The only thing I miss dearly from Vanilla was the PvP

TM vs SS
Epic battles in AV (assuming you didnt just want your honor and gtfo as quickly as possible like today)
and the glorious trip to BRM... oh BRM every turn was a surprise

Though the honor grind back then was simply ridiculous and anyone saying anything to the contrary simply had no job/no life or broke rules and account shared

Some people respect High Warlords...lul
MMOs aren't the place to look for hard/challenging/masochistic games. Deal with it.

The hardest part about original WoW was finding 39 other people who weren't dumb.

WoW is not and never has been a hard game. Quit pretending you're the best at an easy game.
I love all the posters talking smack about the game they likely never played. "Vanilla wasn't better, you don't remember anything. BTW, I started 3 weeks into Wrath. "

I don't post much on the forums these days, but I have to speak up about some of this. Yes, the fit and polish of the game in WotLK and Cata is world above, as is the questing system, and to a degree the class balance and spec representation. However, it seems the cost of this is that the development team is completely satisfied with a player base that has no mind to get better.

I loved Vanilla and in large part TBC because the term casual hardcore meant something for raiders. I spent 3 years in a guild that was a progression guild, 3 nights a week, and even though we never pushed server firsts or anything, we all knew that we were a cut above because we actually knew how to play and worked our butts off.

The game in its current form isn't about anybody trying to learn their class, work as a team, or be coordinated. You can spend a few weeks wiping because people are doing something stupid and eventually WoW will hot fix it to overcome your disinterest in progressing as a player. Systemic content nerfs and the badge system are the real reason WoW's content is trivialized and ignored, just like how Ulduar was largely ignored for ToC 5 mans and badge loot.

No more ammo....this seems to be for those who couldn't remember to bring arrows or bullets...making it easy...

Wow, so buying arrows equates to a challenge...if that's how "challenging" vanilla use to be then I for one am thankful that I didn't have to experience the difficulty that was buying ammo in vanilla...phew.
So sick of this pining for making the game Nintendo hard. False, manufactured difficulty is not fun. Never was and never will be. I have been playing since 2005, and I'd never ever consider playing vanilla again.

Cataclysm is hard, but you probably choose to do non-heroic raids only. What's that mean? You're intentionally making the game easier on yourself? Shock! How long did it take top guilds to clear the first tier of Lich King raids? How about the first tier of Cataclysm raids? The challenge was there for people who had the balls to come out and seize it, while the rest of us - cause I'll be the first to admit it, I'm *not* a good enough player for heroic raids, nor are my friends - have an accessible game with its own challenges.

In LK, we plowed through Naxx in no time; in Cata, we're on Neffy now, but we haven't killed him, and we haven't killed Cho'gall... and I'm fine with that. Yeah, I think for the sake of the now-ever-increasing number of guilds that have cleared content, it's time for the next raid tier [even though it's still God-only-knows how far off >.<], but even then, it was worse in LK because of how short tier 7 was.

TL;DR: Vanilla sucked, and you've got rose-colored glasses on your hindsight, and you're CHOOSING to make the game too easy on yourself just so you can complain about the game being too easy.
It's easy cause you played since beta numb nuts.

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