PvE HPally Theorycrafting Pt.2

Paladin
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@ Dubalicious

for the shannox kill the HPS aren't bad but at the same time look at the healing curve, every time you came down from a spike you guys had like 2-3 deaths. im surprised you were able to kill it with this many dead. and as for the mastery, your illuminated healing(mastery absorb) only did 200k more than mind and you're stacking it... AND your fight lasted almost 2 more minutes. i just dont think that the mastery actually helped you on shannox. your heals are way to spiky don't get me wrong mine are spiky on that fight as well but looking at the 2 side by side you can defiantly see what im talking about better than me trying to explain it.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8p5mcmbufiyfvnci/sum/healingDone/?s=3828&e=4057

i just don't see the mastery absorb healing for enough compared to a non-mastery healer to say that its legit to stack it all that way.
So I've been healing the way that I do for a while and haven't really seen any bad outcomes on my mana. I don't remember the last time I went OOM. Anyways, I heal heavily with Flash of Light in a 25m environment, and using Divine Light when things get heavy on the tank. I rarely ever use Holy Light because it's so slow and by time I get the cast off, my target has already been healed to full.

What's wrong with stacking haste and using Flash of Light more than any other spell?
HPM is alot less efficient with FoL. only 1k less mana cost than DL and a 17k heal instead of 25k
What about in regards to HPS though?
So if I'm using mainly FoL and DL, never having mana problems, people aren't dying and I'm doing very well on the charts, should I switch my healing style to one that makes more use of HL?
log out in ur pve gear so i can see it sometime
Tried stacking mastery, definitely functional in heroic modes, but did not enjoy it.

Problem is more that healers are required to spam the crap out of the tanks (ala 70% overheal) to prevent tank deaths. That kind of overheal deprecation means haste is not so good. Hated the playstyle tho. Really bland, really stressful, but was optimal in this situation.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kom4hfqx3tn5p7g2/

For non-heroic raiders, I'd recommend spirit (~2500 is probably good for most people) to comfort, haste (~1000 is probably good for most people) to comfort, then mastery and crit 1:1. #'s will likely bite me in the ass, but people demand them anyways. Those numbers are pretty loose.

For heroic raiders, I'd recommend stacking either haste or mastery depending on if you primarily raid heal (get haste) or tank heal (get mastery) and then crit as a low priority. The big change here is just how much damn overheal is going out. Subject to change as I see more content.

Turns out my old problem of instant tank gibs was caused by Shannox getting too far from dogs.

But still, seriously Blizzard, insta-gibbing tanks is not fun.
I have not been able to find any help on my particular question in this topic so please excuse me if I'm repeating anything already stated.

From what I've seen, the average Holy Paladin sticks to 2-3 specific trinkets being Fall of Mortality, Darkmoon Card: Tsunami, and Core of Ripeness. I've always used Fall of Mortality and Darkmoon Card: Tsunami, but many top paladins on my server are using Fall of Mortality and Core of Ripeness. I've tried to figure out the difference in average mp5 between Core of Ripeness and Darkmoon Card: Tsunami, but I'm not sure if my numbers are solid. I was hoping someone can spread some light on this issue and see if I could actually benefit from Core of Ripeness rather than Darkmoon Card: Tsunami.

Thank you!
Assuming 1 spi = 0.6 ICmp5, Core = 4622.4 mana per use.

DMC:Tsunami is 5760 mana over the same 2 minutes ignoring rampup time.

Using CoR over DMC:Tsunami is a loss after the nerf to Mana Tide Totem. There are no int procs significant enough to make CoR catch up to DMC:T that I am aware of.
07/15/2011 05:51 PMPosted by Lylthe
Using CoR over DMC:Tsunami is a loss after the nerf to Mana Tide Totem. There are no int procs significant enough to make CoR catch up to DMC:T that I am aware of.


I'm not sure I understand because CoR is not increased by int procs, I thought it was just a straight 1926 spirit for 20 sec.
Spirit Regen = 0.001 + Spirit * sqrt(Int) * BASE_REGEN * 5

More int means more spirit based regen. This would increase the 0.6 term I discussed earlier. In my gear, that coefficient is closer to 0.63.

It is theoretically possible to have a short term massive int proc. Timing a significant boost of spirit to coincide with the int proc would boost spirit regen. That said, int follows a square root term making it inefficient for spirit based regeneration.
Some logs from heroic Beth'tilac.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-h8chuii71ajmkzkx/

With significantly lower overheal numbers for this fight, the other stats, haste and crit are giving a stronger showing than mastery.

So... unless you plan to reforge every fight depending on the amount of overheal going out, I'd recommend a balanced stat build.
Even EJ and other discussion grps are saying the same thing.


Mastery is very encounter specific. You are not going to see a vast improvement in your output stacking mastery. The problem is that ppl need to stop looking at recount. You will not be beating druids and priests in heals young skywalker. Use the tools you must, to keep tanks alive...and happy raid you will have.

For the vast majority of us NOT doing heroic encounters and doing reg 10-25 this mastery/crit stackings is not a viable strat. Spir/haste with 1:1 balance of crit>mastery is superior. The way mastery seems to scale with other stats (including crit) I dont' find that to be particularly attractive. Since I tend to be throwing out raid heals all the time. I just can't find any reason why I would want to stack mastery. The end.
Replenishment (1% max mana/10 seconds, or 0.5% max mana per 5) - Ret Paladins, Resto Druids, and other sources I can't remember.
Frost mages, Destro warlocks, and Shadow priests also give replenishment :)
07/18/2011 11:01 PMPosted by Holychick
For the vast majority of us NOT doing heroic encounters and doing reg 10-25 this mastery/crit stackings is not a viable strat. Spir/haste with 1:1 balance of crit>mastery is superior.


I'd say more the other way around, i find that its more un-realistic to be doing this as far as heroic modes go because you would never be able to keep up with the increased raid damage, ie: rhyolith, beth'tilac, majordormo etc...

i just cant see being able to keep the raid alive when using this stat priority it would cause way to much stress on you other healers. YES it would help for baleroc but shannox is such i joke i wont add that one in there either, like the tank doesnt even get hit that hard there. But for the majority of the new firelands raid bosses crit/mastery builds just dont scale enough imo to make it viable to do this. If you're specifcally "tank" healing you're going to put too much pressure on the other healers because realistically idgaf if you are stacking crit/mastery you will not be able to keep a tank up alone. so now the other healers will have to continue helping you on the tank as well as picking up your slack on raid heals.

07/18/2011 08:19 AMPosted by Lylthe
I'd recommend a balanced stat build.


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(i recommend keeping haste above 1550 for comfort)
Of Course. Holy Light hits Torment target for 10k, and its corresponding Beacon xfer hits the Beacon target for 100k or however many stacks I end up with during the fight. It works exactly the same as any other +heal% buff that doesn't globally affect personal heals, such as Guardian Spirit, Mortal Strike, and tank +% healing to self talents.

Hence my comment about not using Beacon being stupid on this fight. We could replace our druid and shaman in that fight with a paladin and we would have the same overall throughput with three healers as we did with four. We'll probably three-heal the fight tonight if we run into enrage issues and our other pally is stable tonight.



can any1 confirm/deny this strategy? ill find out tonight i suppose but this seams like a great strategy as far as i can tell.

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