Ask The Devs #6: Guild Advancement (Answers)

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04/30/2011 07:25 PMPosted by Krcek
, lots of people are NOT happy

There are about 160 posts on this thread. I wasn't aware that is "lots" when there are 12+ million accounts

Even by that not all the posts are negative. Grow up and work for something once in your life. It's not like real life isn't a grind as well
Any chance of some kind of reward for guilds that have an Alliance with another? We have such an alliance & don't feel like being 'absorbed' into the other one. We raid together and pug from each others guild when needed. Would be nice if something could be implemented - short of one guild disbanding to join the other or starting a whole new guild, there's no real incentive (guild xp wise) to continue, other than the social enjoyment and necessity at times.. this relationship brings.
Can someone please explain why I can not access my 83 level Warrior (Me) but any other character not a problem???
How would you feel if you no longer had any access to your character without any notification ,,,,Honestly,,, not nice
Oh we go again. The "haves" get punished (or better stated, get to sit and watch those who want work done for them get rewarded with "shortcuts" meant to "level the playing field".
I built a guild that was a wreck in Wrath, into a powerhouse (on Undermine, anyway). We were the 11th Guild on our server to reach Rank 25. We are currently ranked 6th in PvP Rank. We are the 2nd largest guild on our server. Our closest Alliance is with the largest guild on our server. We organized a 32 Guild Alliance of Guilds. We play co-operatively, helping each other through dungeons, raids, patches and in understanding what the current "level playing field" really means.
We accomplished this in 5 months.
How did I (with help form a few good Guild Officers) accomplish this (a non-descript guild of 50 or so players, to 6th ranked pvp/11th Rank 25 Guild, in FIVE months???
Hard Work, solid understanding of the game's guild mechanics and constant re-education of ourselves and our guild mates. Work, Work Work and then some more work.
So here's an idea, punish me. Punish my guild. Make it EASIER for others to mirror our success. Give away that which I, and my guild had to earn.
Is it hard to start a guild from scratch? Yes.
Is it hard to keep a guild's "core group" together and focused with common goals? Yes.
Is it hard looking up at the "haves" when your a "have not"? Duh.
How can you fix that? Well, you can do the same things other guilds have done to accomplish similar success, or you can sit on forums and cry to the devlopers "It's not fair that I don't have the things others have!".
Go work for it.
I have ONE lvl 85 toon. I have played this game for 3+ years.
Players talk about what their favorite "profession" is, in game. When asked, the response I like giving is:
"My profession is "Guild Builder"."
I spend countless hours reading forums, I spend countless hours recruiting players, talented players for raid teams, novice players for guild exp generation. I spend countless hours solving interpersonal issues (drama). I spend countless hours finding, training and deploying Guild Officers, Diplomats, Raid Leaders, Bankers, Recruiters and hell, once in a while I even get to spill some blood in dungeons/raids/pvp. Is it frustrating when a highly valued member g quits and jumps to another guild? Yuppers. What do you do? Cry? Nope, you pick up your ego, dust it off and go recurit 4 more to take his/her place.

Here's a new concept for you cry babies who want it all and you want it all now:
Go Work for it.

I have seen guilds crash out of stupidity, ego, neglect and abuse.
The singular Guild "ownership" model Blizz's developers have given us sucks.
To give a game, with a demographic in the 15-20 male department, only one "guild ownership" model is giving every mal-adjusted teenage boy the opportunity to be an ill-prepared dictator.
I run my guild as a democracy, with our 2nd annual GM vote slated for Nov. 2011.
It is a democracy only because of my willingness to allow it to be that way. I have set the guild up in councils, the councils make the decisions on what direction the guild goes, they decide much of what our guild does, but they do so ony beneath my willingness to allow it to be that way. I personally would never want to be part of a guild, ever again, that was a dictatorship, swaying around on the whims of a singular GM's ego. I would GLADLY hand over control of all that I have worked hard for, in order to free myself, and my guildmates form teh spector of a GM's possible/innevitable meltdown. Ademocratic model of guild leadership is in my opinion, the best model around, and only possible through a GM who not just "permits" it to be that way, but a GM who PREFERS it to be that way.
To take the socio-economic-political aspect of this game into the next level of development, a 2nd or 3rd organizational/ownership model needs to be introduced. I'm not the only GM "humble" enough to intall this kind of culture into a guild. There MUST be others willing to hold off on the G-Boot button, and let a council decide who gets booted, who is welcomed, who has access and who gets the BOE drops. Councils are the best dynamic in guild leadership that Blizzard never included in the game package. Functional Guild Councils are user created content. This concept should be hard-wired into alternative forms of "Guild Ownership".

Thats mah two cents.

Sorry for the bragging on mah guild, it's posted here as a reminder to those who are crying about "Big Guilds having it all". A reminder on how they can obtain what we are enjoying, through hard work, and not by asking for handouts from game designers.
Big Guilds only "have it all" cuz a singular person (or guild council) analyzed the game's guild structure, adjusted, and worked their asses off to "have it all".
Cry or Work. You do have a choice.
In mah guild, The "choice" is a group decision, and a group mentality, in achieveing group goals.
Kinda the very definition of what a Guild
When played correctly, this game is far more than hacking off a bosses' arms and head. This game is about organization, analisys of design, diplomacy, economics, miltary strategy, and a hotkeyed turbo mouse : ).

Stop your crying and get off the forums and go recruit new members, build your guild to be a powerhouse. It can be done without the designers hand delivering your "perfect guild" to you while you sit in your bean-bag chair hacking dungeon bosses.

GM Elect,
The Rubicon

General Manager,
The Alliance of Guilds (32 Sister Guilds)


PS: yah I'm a lil annoyed that the GM, working hours and hours in leading, organizing, and developing a powerhouse guild and a 32 guild alliance is still only "Friendly" with mah own

Well good for that Guild Perks are fully in effect...I wonder if you could duplicate the same results if you started a new guild from scratch...not build up one that was already there pre cata and not from a known or recognizable toon on your server...maybe then you will get a clearer picture of what some of the "boo-hoo" is about.
04/29/2011 08:09 PMPosted by Roweshambow
Its interesting to listen to the people whining about "fairness" for smaller guilds competing with larger guilds. But what about guilds that put in the hard work to get to lvl 25? Its not fair for them that some lame upstart guild gets an advantage even though they never put in the effort.

You sir are a so far off the mark its sad...with how the systems works in order for a smaller guild to become established and compete with larger guilds they need; members (opps sorry cant get those because my guild is under level 3 and I have no perks to offer what a larger guild has) and it needs some levels 70+ (lets face it anything lower contributes next to nothing towards guild xp, but cant get those guys because at those levels (most not all) feel they feel they should be with an established guild). If your guild was already in existence prior to Cata and had the two things i mentioned above then your point is mute. There was no major effort involved...your guild leveled naturally. This is for post cata players who want to start a guild but are coming across huge obstacles regardubg getting or keeping members due to missing one or both of the factors mentioned above and or other things aswell.
Lower level guilds are definitely struggling in the start up phase. I very much dislike larger guilds because of the pressure you are put under in groups and the fact that there are 500+ members and you can't really stay friends with anyone since they are doing stuff with other people. The theory that higher level guilds are more helpful is completely wrong - It's the other way around. No one ever has time to do things with you since they are in a raid or dungeon with other guildies.

I've tried to start guilds before and it always ends in disaster since no one wants a 0% xp bonus versus a 10% xp bonus.

After thinking about it for a long while I've come up with a few suggestions.

1. Why not relate the guild perks and rewards with guild reputation instead of level?
-It would help lower level guilds recruit because people won't look for a higher level guild as much.

2. Make at least 50% of your highest guild rep ever earned transferable if you ever decide to move to a new guild
-In case you aren't happy with your current guild or have to move several times.

3. Possibly reduce the guild member cap
-Allow more guilds to exist so people can create their own or join a new one.
I totally agree... they're focusing on increasing the abilities of both high and low... Focus on the LOW the HIGH is already HIGH enough.
by the way blizz the new guild tabards look wonderful great job one of my fav things since the newer patch :). can we fix some of the armor overlaps? like example lots of people hate seeing their huge belt overlapping their sexy new guild tabards you made for us, is there a time u will make it a choice to either have tabard tucked under belt or tabard over the belt? XD
You're full of it if you think that random recruiting isn't what the guilds are doing. That's the only way a lower level guild can level because they need quantity not quality of people to level the guild up. Then on top of that those that join expect some level of help they won't get with a mass recruiting plan and leave, but does it hurt the guild? No, because they'll get someone else to fill that slot and they won't care. Until they get to level 20 or so people won't even look at your guild as a possibility to join for raiding. Once you get to that sweet spot you can be more picky about who you recruit and you have a more prime pick of players then thus making GMs kick out all those people who helped level the guild up to make it worth something to the GM.

Perks should be nice but not a deal maker. The fact that a guild has 500 members is also a perk that people want too that you cannot control right now. You should be hindering guilds with lots of people and trying to focus it down to a guild with core people so other guilds can get the chance of getting better players. You only need a solid 10 people to do any raiding. The majority of the time you get a 10:1 ratio of players who are inactive to players who are active. Guilds that have more than 100 people should have to do a lot more than guilds with less than 100 people to gain XP. If you want to do 25s, then maybe a GM should be given the options of setting the guild level to 25s and their required XP per level should be increased and thus lifting their xp nerf up to 250 members. This will also force GMs to trim out inactive players; this would force GMs to stop recruiting once they hit their sweet spot and allow the smaller guilds a better shot at getting new people in their ranks instead of having the biggest guilds horde all the good players running multiple teams or worse, having a ton of great players with only one main raid group while good players sit on the sidelines waiting to get picked to join a team when their core team members don't show up.

It shouldn't be about how many people you have in the guild, it should be how active those players are WITH the guild that give them rep and guild xp. Don't give them 70 or 80 guild rep either, lets see 250 rep for a guild dungeon run. 12 dungeons will give someone at least friendly with their guild. You give that much for quests so why not give it to players who help their guild. The TRUE rewards to the players should be given to those that build their rep with the guild and help their guild out, not the guild with the highest level. Give the exalted guild members those level 25 perks to be able to summon their guild into a raid or res their entire raid group, not the guild with level 25 perks. Get rid of the guild perks all together and give it to the individuals who help their guild, stick with a guild and enjoy helping their guild out.

Give the top earner of guild XP a gold bonus or JP/VP bonus (top 1% earners maybe), this will also benefit lower level players who level up. Give the guild lots of xp for leveling / questing players so they get a great chance at getting the perk as well. You should only get guild rep when you do stuff FOR the guild. IE, run guild groups. Leveling doesn't help the guild in any way. That helps the player. Give the GUILD XP for players who level in it not guild rep to them, the petty 5 rep you give out per quest for lower levels is pointless anyway. Give the player an XP boost for being in a guild...not for the guild being level X if you want people to join guilds. Give them JP for running guild groups even at lower levels so when they hit that magic cap level they'll have points to buy starter gear which will help that guild out for when they start raiding and get them setup and give them guild rep for doing them with the guild. Even give higher levels guild rep when they run lower levels thru dungeons. That helps guild members out, give them guild xp for doing it and give them some rep too since they're helping guild members out. There's no que times for guild groups so you're focusing on the wrong thing when you give perks to players who DON'T run with guild groups and go solo to help the non-guilded/people who just want stuff for themselves get groups. Let em wait in the ques for hours. Encourage dps to run with tanks and healers from a local guild and this will help them find a guild as well as give guilds the chance to get new players in their guild or encourage them to start their own guilds or roll tanks and healers themselves. Give them some rep for doing items that go toward a guild achivement as well.

In some respect this guild perks thing was a great idea on the front end, but really this isn't helping the lower and smaller level guilds. Give the smaller family guilds a chance to have the same opportunities that the big massive guilds have and really rethink this thing out.
Our guild has been around since 2006, and I took over as GM in 2007. Since that time I have gkicked 2 players... 1 for stealing funds from another guild member and 1 because his father was forcing him to allow his brother access to his account and his brother was not a good fit for the guild and the player called me on the phone and asked to have his toons removed from guild to prevent social issues with the guild. Anyone else has left on their own, either because it wasn't a good fit or because they went to end game guilds. We use an interview process prior to inviting new members which helps reduce this. Since we were always focused on being a leveling guild with the goal of building a regular, steady close knit group of 5 to 10 man, we have maintained a pretty reliable number of members, generally 75-85. While we level slower, because we do take the time to interview members, have a probation period of 90 days once a new member joins, the gm kicking everyone isn't likely to gkick a full guild once we do eventually hit level 25 because we are a family. The guild system has always been that of a dictatorship.. some have chosen to use a democratic approach to how they make decisions, or the committee approach but when it comes down to it, guilds are dictatorships based on the personality of the GM... if the GM is going to gkick everyone at Guild Level 25, then you probably have plenty of warning signs you are choosing to ignore and the guild is not the proper fit for you anyway. Before the guild achievement and progression system, you had gms that would wait for people to deposit large amounts of money and items in the bank and then steal the funds, sell all the guild inventory and then either disband the guild or just wait until someone else logged on, make them the gm and gquit. Same thing with gms making new toons on another server and abandoning the guild without passing the hat to someone else. If you choose to join a guild this is part of the risk you take. The reality is this is not that frequent of an occurance and since these are not offical organizations of Blizzard, they are not likely to intervene because that would interfer with the basics of the flavor of these volunteer organizations. BTW our guild does require a quorum of the officers to initiate a gkick and we do have a set of guidelines for all members to follow and when there is an offense made by a member we have a set of protocols to follow based on the type of offense. Of course, I am a friendly dictator and I choose to follow the rules and apply them but I always have the option to veto the quorum vote and inititate the gkick if I feel it is in the best interest of the guild and everyone has the right to vote by using the gquit option. So far it hasn't happened. I have seen this happen to only one other guild I had an alt in and the warning signs were there well ahead of time and I left before it happened as did many others. That's why I wish they would open the Guild Recruit tool to everyone to opt into so that people who don't feel they are a good fit see the warning signs of a major issue breweing or who outgrow their current guild have the option to start looking ahead of time just like they could opt into the Guildrecruitment channel.
I have a question reguiding guilds when will guild based be added WoW is out for at least 6 years some mmos have bases 4 guilds when will a guild base 4 WoW be made?
Guilds should best be viewed as companies. Do larger companies get better prices on their goods because of volume discounts? Yes. Do you get less personal and friendly customer service with larger companies? Yes. Is the opposite for both of these true of smaller companies? Yes. It is up to you, however, where you would like to spend your money.
04/27/2011 10:20 AMPosted by Kaivax
Maintaining an active guild asks a lot of the guild master and leading officers

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