Arena and RBG Conquest Change - Updated 4/27

General Discussion
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04/26/2011 09:20 PMPosted by Bashiok
We're currently evaluating these amounts as we believe they are potentially lower than they need to be, and we'll of course let you know if they need to be changed.

This part kind burns me. The PTR has been up for quite a long time and this change didn't make it into the notes. Now you are going to evaluate it because you think it might be low? Is that what the PTR's are for?
Sounds like this change was thoroughly thought through... Just as the well as the WoG nerf in fact...

A/w, how the hell did this make it to live?

Lets give an example.

You're a decent player with over a 2k rating, and so at this current rate you need 20 wins to cap for the week. However, your rating is pretty close to your skill level so you win 50% of the games. So now I need 40 games to cap for the week.....

Average of maybe 5-10 minutes for a 2v2 game depending on your comp.

So now I have to spend at least 6.5 hours to pt cap my char?

What if I have 3 85s? oh 20 hours of grind...... awesome plan.
I agree; this isn't a good change at all. For those of us with alts this would mean even more games to queue and play just to cap points.

It definitely needs to be reverted back to percentage or something significantly higher than the measly 135 per win.

QFT. This is one of the dumbest changes I've ever seen.
As I've said before and in this post. This makes arena less desirable for most players (except for the few who want to do more battles) at every bracket.
Why? What was the reason behind this? We didn't feel frustrated enough already with this pvp system? We would really like to know why. Please give us the reasoning behind it. It took long enough to gear up for RBG's as it was by doing arenas. We all would have liked some time this season to play when most all pvpers had completely geared up therefore making it more of a game of skill and strategy. That's when pvp is most fun. PVP is not fun when gear alone decides the battle or fight.
There is absolutely NO reason to make the points gained not scale with your personal conquest cap.

Want to require 10 wins to hit your cap? Fine. But make it so regardless of what your rating is. Any other solution is idiotic.

04/26/2011 09:53 PMPosted by Ehcko
Just out of curiosity why did you change the way the system was? It seemed to work perfectly and made everyone happy. The only thing the change has done has upset people, what was the intended goal?

I'm curious what the motivation was also.
04/27/2011 05:54 AMPosted by Jynks
I'm curious what the motivation was also.

This is the only hint we got that something like this was coming:

We also want to make sure the epic PvP gear isn’t too easy for just anyone to obtain, given that the PvE endgame content is more challenging than it was in Lich King. We don’t want the player base to just migrate to the most efficient epic delivery mechanism; we want you to participate in what you find most enjoyable.
04/27/2011 05:57 AMPosted by Ayani
I'm curious what the motivation was also.

This is the only hint we got that something like this was coming:

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We also want to make sure the epic PvP gear isn’t too easy for just anyone to obtain, given that the PvE endgame content is more challenging than it was in Lich King. We don’t want the player base to just migrate to the most efficient epic delivery mechanism; we want you to participate in what you find most enjoyable.

Well ... I did enjoy pvp and arenas, and I was looking forward to gearing up to do RBG's. However, I also was starting to gear for pve so I could enjoy both aspects of the game. I guess we aren't supposed to do both. I will continue to pvp, but I think I will find it more difficult to get arena partners now as anyone who enjoys pve more will probably quit doing any pvp altogether.

I was already facing the penalties for jumping teams alot to try to help Alliance on my server gear up so we may stand at least a slightly better chance in regular battlegrounds as believe it or not, a lot of people would like to enjoy both aspects of the game, so my pvp team mates were pve first and then if time, pvp. I guess they want us to choose (can't do both). That is going to kill Alliance pvp on my server. There aren't as may pvp-only players on Alliance side on my server. Horde can look forward to even more extreme Q wait times on my server.

Why don't you want us to enjoy both pve and pvp? (or is my evaluation of the situation wrong?) Is it the rebalancing issue causing the problem so that you can't have us playing both or what is the problem with playing both pve and pvp? I ask this most respectfully.
I currently have 3 characters that I try and cap Conquest with each week. Each one of them is at least at 1800 rating, and they will all take at least fifteen wins to cap out on points. This is at least 45 wins across all of my characters. I have around an average 60% win/loss ratio when looking at how each character does, so I'm actually going to need to at least 75 games each week to cap out Conquest points through Arena. If I have a 10m queue time + match time (not unrealistic), I'm looking at 12.5 real time hours of WoW just from Arena every week, assuming that I have a positive win/loss ratio, or do not improve my ratings.
I think I speak for many people when I ask for the reason behind this change. Arena is not about gear. In an ideal world, everyone should be working with the same gear. However, this is still a progression based game, and I realized that the way Conquest points were awarded this season was an effective compromise between progression and accessing gear quickly. But now, however, I will need to either devote eight more hours than I'm used to to gain the same amount of gear. On a "fun" level, that just seems wrong. This change will not help balance the game, and serves only to reduce the number of points that people are receiving. Again, I would really appreciate hearing the reasoning behind the change; all I can see is that people in Arena will have to work harder to get the same result, with no other appreciable affect.

I don't want to be the forum poster who just says "This is stupid", but you know what? This change is stupid. It makes my life more difficult, reduces my incentive to play in Arena (which is already not as mainstream as it used to be), and overall reduces the fun I will have by playing this game. A similar change would be halving the number of Valor points gained, but allowing a player to run 10 random pugs. The change would have a similar affect, and would be just as pointless.
This seems like an asinine decision meant to screw over people who have multiple toons over the 2k point limit, requiring them to win 20+ games on every one of there toons each week.
04/27/2011 06:37 AMPosted by Grimnoire
I like the change, I hate the fact that I play 5 matches and my week is over (I'm just a casual arena player), 135 per win will give me the number of matches I would prefer and still have each one reward me beyond my rating/cap

I hate this argument. Nothing's stopping you from playing more. Try to boost your rating, play to improve, play for fun.

Having the option to play more, and requiring people to play more who may not have time to do so are two very different things.
If you're doing it because you're enjoying it, you weren't just getting your five wins. The thing that having a fixed win requirement allows is for you to play a variable amount. If you're trying to push your rating and get into a losing streak, it's no big deal to quit. You can do it for as long as you're having fun at it.

People getting up to higher ratings didn't just 5 wins a week their way there. The people who only care about OMG PURPZ are the ones that do that, and this change impacts them the least. It's the people that already wanted to play arena that are being penalized.

The higher your rating gets, the more wins you need while playing against teams that should be more challenging. That means you have to play more games, longer games, and get into longer queue times.

Increasing the required wins doesn't mean you're getting rewarded for doing something that you enjoy. It means you're enjoying it less because it feels like you're being forced into playing more games. After the amount I had to put in just on my lowly 1850 guy, I didn't even want to mess with my warrior that I was just starting up.

And no one buys the "error" that it didn't show up in the patch notes. A dramatic change, mid-season, that never appeared on the PTR gets pushed live, and no one takes the 60 seconds to skim the patch notes and make sure someone put it in there? That's the kind of thing that happens when Blizzard has decided that that's what they're going to do, regardless of player input, so they shove it out there, and that's how it is. And then they can hotfix the number of points. But static wins per week is gone now.
Such a bad, bad change. Percentage based was the only good way to do conquest. I'd already stopped bothering with arena every week due to imbalances (hoping for some fixes this patch), now I may as well just quit the game altogether.
I find it humorous that some people are like "it's only 10 games a week". It's 10 WINS... and that's only if you're BELOW 1500. I'm sitting at just under 2k on my 2s team which is around 2300 points a week. I haven't been doing arenas since Cata came out (a month+ maybe), so I still have many gear needs. With this new system I'm going to have to get 18 wins to cap out. The old system was just as bad (i.e easy) for points as this one, only you didn't have to actually win anything... you just had to play 10 matches a week. The new system was basically the same thing (you had to win 5 with an assumed win/loss ratio of 50/50) but you got your points as soon as you won.

I know "hotfixing" things is all the rage in Cataclysm, but seriously... pick a system and STICK with it. WTF is alpha/closed beta/open beta/ptr testing for anyway if not to hammer this stuff out ahead of launch?
I would just like to post why this change is awful for me. I have 5 lv 85, and 5 sub 85s. Now at any given time I'm probably playing 1-3 of those 85s in arena, and 1-2 of the sub 85s.

I only play arena with friends, and we just play casually. One team is a DK/holy paladin that we are actually trying to get good at, so our cap is ~1800 points right now, and we are in mostly bloodthristy, so points matter to us. Then we usually have a 3s team with another friend that is new to wow, so he is awful ;). Then we might play another 2s team if we want. So we went from need 10-15 wins a week to needing probably 20-35 wins depending which teams we play. We just don't have time for that.

So basically this change means we have to cut out teams. So we are cutting out fun. Cutting out fun. Cutting fun. Fun... Wait, is this a game or work, I forget.
04/27/2011 06:46 AMPosted by Bane
WTF is alpha/closed beta/open beta/ptr testing for anyway if not to hammer this stuff out ahead of launch?

Blizzard is in a mess, internally, right now. The left hand doesn't really know what the right hand is doing. Meanwhile the feet are attempting to march in two different directions. Yes this is very frustrating for the subscribers right now but for those who are paid to work on this stuff at Blizzard, it is a nightmare.

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