Why is research required for this game?

General Discussion
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 Next
You don't need to research it, but you don't need to expect people to tell you all the answers either. When you ask some one where to find something or how to do a fight is it really any different from loading up Google?
04/28/2011 03:54 PMPosted by Alchemiss
If you NEED a level 85 in order to get thru the questlines intended for level 1-15, obviously something is wrong with the player.



True... he is bad, and being his roughly 3rd or 4th hour of playing he is expected to be.



04/28/2011 03:54 PMPosted by Alchemiss
The reaction most bad players have is what we see here, "Hmm, this is too hard, maybe I should get someone else to come here and do it for me."



Being my younger brother, the last thing he wanted was for me to do it for him... in fact, I did NOTHING towards completing a quest for him. I merely set him up with a rotation and gave him some rules to live by.





04/28/2011 03:54 PMPosted by Alchemiss
There is absolutely NO need for a rotation at level 8.



Sure there is... it's just not the kind of rotation that comes later in the game. He was a hunter, so I set him up openning with a simple Arcane, Arcane, Steady (to get him used to Steady Shot) then added Serpent Sting to the beginning of the chain when he got it at 10th.

Pretty much all classes use a rotation or priority system from the get-go, they are just wimpy by comparrison to what they become later (due to fewer choices).
04/28/2011 03:46 PMPosted by Allene
Please provide a single example of information that can only be obtained by researching outside of the game.


There are TONS of things... but internal cooldowns and procs per minute come to mind right off the bat.

You can't even get your own in-game dps without going outside the game to search for an add-on.
To answer the question in the title of thread, research is absolutely not required for this game. Certain players demand that you read the last chapter of the book before you join them in reading it. You just need to find players (typically friends or guilds) that are interested in the game itself.

When you hit LFD, you have a decent chance of running with jerks whose sole interest is in getting done quickly. Why they even bother playing the game is beyond me, but they exist in enough numbers that you will likely run into them.

Personally, I don't mind explaining fights to new people, nor does it bother me to wipe a few times (seriously, repair bills are pretty minimal compared to the average amount of money people are carrying around). From my perspective, those who are running dungeons just to get to the end quickly should be the ones in guilds.



04/28/2011 11:43 AMPosted by Sorianos
LFD is not your personal playground.
- {from someone who thinks LFD is solely for the purpose of speed runs}

Nor is LFD your personal playground either. Your point of view is no more, and no less, valid than my own.
I look up:
- location of quest givers/npc's that are in odd/random places I would otherwise have to scour the zone to find
- solutions to quests that are really poorly worded or very vague on what you're supposed to
- what dungeons/bosses drop gear appropriate for me so I know which dungeons to queue for
- boss mechanics for the next encounter while I'm in a new/newish dungeon/raid so I at least have some idea as to what to expect
- explanation of what to do for some of the more obscure achievements
- advice on talents/glyphs/rotations/techniques that might improve my performance

I'm sure there's more, that's just off the top of my head. I don't really see "research" as a problem. That's what we've been doing for ages. When I was a kid I had a subscription to Nintendo Power so I could not only read up on what games are coming out but also for tips & strategies on current games. Likewise you could often find entire guide books published for your games too. I doubt I ever would have randomly decided to jump up and down on a koopa shell in exactly the right spot in super mario bro's to discover the infinite lives trick.
blows my mind that people like the OP can't just alt-tab and open a browser.

are you playing on an IBM 486 Power Platform?
if i don't know a term i google it.

if i start something new on a game this complex (and yes, considering every part of the game it can be VERY complex) i'm not so conceited to think i know everything about it already.

when i'm only playing by myself, yea, i can just wing it, but the minute that "new" activity makes me rely on other players (and other players rely on me) then i know its time to "google it" or, in this case, look it up on a fan website like wowhead or even elitist jerks.
Only problem I had with the "research" aspect was that in BC there was nothing in-game that indicated that you needed at least 490 defense and 102.4% avoidance to tank raids. Nothing stated that if you don't have 102.4%, you will be crushed by raid bosses which is pretty much a one-shot kill.

I had to go to a third party site to read up on stuff like that.

But, now that I know about hidden values and things like that I usually head to google to search "best gear/stats/gems/enchants for spec/class" or if I know a good website with info on a specific class/spec(Maintankadin) I go there.
The first guild to down any given encounter did it without any boss/raid warning mods or strategy guides. You just have to both exceptionally good and exceptionally dedicated to succeed in that environment. Asking for the average player to be able to succeed without those mods or guides would seriously trivialize the content, which is why Blizzard doesn't do it, and many on the forums bristle at the suggestion that we should be able to.

As far as gear, you really don't need to study this either. As many have noted, the ratings are in your character sheet, and your primary stat is pretty much static across an item level of gear, and you don't have the option to reforge it. The remaining stats are typically pretty close when it comes down to stat weights, meaning once you get past your two stats with caps (hit and exp) the difference between your best secondary stat and worst, aren't far off (with some exceptions)
If you want to reach the maximum potential of your class, sure, there are number crunchers out there who will tell you the best talent and stat choices to make, spell/ability rotations, etc. But the information you need to be successful in your role is really all in the game. We've gone to great lengths to ensure things are clear enough that you can make some meaningful choices for your character's power on your own, and still have a great shot at catching onto what makes you excel.

If you're speaking at all about boss encounters, I think you'll dig the Dungeon Journal (formerly referred to as Encounter Journal) coming in patch 4.2. Once we're able to catalog more of our dungeons in this journal, you'll get a lot of essential information for each boss fight. It's not going to tell you how to beat the fight, but it's going to tell you what kind of abilities the boss will be using against you. You'll just have to figure out with your party or raid how to deal with those abilities when they're used. Dungeon Journal will also help you find the loot you're looking for from each boss ahead of time, so you have items in mind you hope to get before even setting foot in the dungeon.

Why do people just dismiss others by saying "look it up on wowhead/mmo-champion/wowwiki/elitest jerks/etc"? I've played many other MMOs before and they didn't need "research" as you people put it like WoW supposedly does. And they were still fun. Phantasy Star Online is still going on after 10 years without any expansions or updates and people still enjoy it and they don't need to research a bunch of stuff for encounters and so forth.

So please, I think we are going in the wrong direction if the pre-requisite to playing WoW is akin to studying for a test at uni.

Thank you.

Looking forward to the Dungeon Journal.
Why do people just dismiss others by saying "look it up on wowhead/mmo-champion/wowwiki/elitest jerks/etc"? I've played many other MMOs before and they didn't need "research" as you people put it like WoW supposedly does. And they were still fun. Phantasy Star Online is still going on after 10 years without any expansions or updates and people still enjoy it and they don't need to research a bunch of stuff for encounters and so forth.

So please, I think we are going in the wrong direction if the pre-requisite to playing WoW is akin to studying for a test at uni.

Thank you.


I was thinking about this today and it came to my mind...

How would someone know if they were doing the dps or heals they were supposed to do?

I use recount to make sure sure I'm where I'm supposed to be at...but what if someone doesn't use Recount? How do they know when their dps or heals are in the right neighborhood?

Thankfully we have that addon and we have websites to research. I don't mind so much because to me, anything that is worth doing is worth being prepared for. I put at least 2 hours if not more into my chosen sport in preparation for National and Regional Events. I read a lot of books, watch videos and train.

I guess WoW is pretty awesome in the fact that you need to do this to be at the top of the game.

Anyone can pick up a pool cue, but to be awesome at it, it takes dedication outside of the pool room. Same for WoW I suppose. =)
I'm hoping the encounter journal has a small lore description of the boss. Like maybe 2-4 sentences telling us why we are fighting him and why he is a bad dude.
Why do people just dismiss others by saying "look it up on wowhead/mmo-champion/wowwiki/elitest jerks/etc"? I've played many other MMOs before and they didn't need "research" as you people put it like WoW supposedly does. And they were still fun. Phantasy Star Online is still going on after 10 years without any expansions or updates and people still enjoy it and they don't need to research a bunch of stuff for encounters and so forth.

So please, I think we are going in the wrong direction if the pre-requisite to playing WoW is akin to studying for a test at uni.

Thank you.


If no one researched anything we would all be running around not knowing wtf we're doing.

I ran with a ret paladin in Vortex Pinnacle the other day doing 2k dps... I inspected him, saw that he was in half tank gear, gemming for intellect, and he was using Seal of Insight. Obviously he hadn't done any research and didn't know anything about his class. I explained to him what he was doing wrong and he just told me to shut up because he knew what he was doing.

While one person doing something like this isn't that big of a deal, if EVERYONE was only doing 2k dps and standing in AoE, no one would ever get anything done. I don't mind explaining what to do on fights, but come onnnn!
Short answer is; you don't.

The beauty of this game is that a five year old can play and have fun, and at the same time you can peel back the layers to pure math and go nuts too.

Where would this game be without the mod community, without the ellitist jerks, without curse and wowinterface. Some weeks I spend more time on MMO-Champions then I do in game.

I like the research side of the game and so do a lot of people. The game caters to a wide audience and that is its strongest point.
I've played many other MMOs before and they didn't need "research" as you people put it like WoW supposedly does..


I'd say the majority of single player games out there have some sort of guide book so players can "research" how to find things or progress. The only person affected is the single player.

What's wrong with doing research when your actions can affect many other players not just yourself?

As someone who actually does research, looks up fights, optimized my rotation and stuff, it drives me insane when I bring my tank into ZG and we get to the first boss and I say:

"Everyone know the fight?"

And I am greeted with:

"Nope, first time in here"
"This is a boss?"
"Handhold me!"

Before I came to tank the instance, I made sure to look at each encounter and learn the basics. Is it really so hard to take a *cursory* glance at each fight beforehand and know the basics?

When I look at a DPS meter and I see all 3 of our DPS at sub-5k, making all the effort I put in basically wasted, it drives me up the wall. The real issue is that if I put the effort in, I want others to put in the same or similar amounts of effort. I don't need you min/maxing like I do. I do need you being competent. I shouldn't have to carry you through stuff because you're too lazy. This is exactly why queue times have skyrocketed...because a large majority of people who play DPS classes, are just incredibly lazy and don't even bother to figure out what they're doing. Don't get me wrong, I will NEVER fail to compliment a good healer, and I love DPS who move around competently and do their jobs.

Unfortunately, thats not an experience that I get very often anymore.
I love how he mentions Phantasy Star Online as an example of an old game that people still play. Yes, people still play old games(those without patches/expansions/etc) and have a great time doing it. But if you want to keep MILLIONS of people interested in a single game for years on end, you have to update, you have to add new things. And with a game as complicated as WoW is, you will have to do research if you want to be the best, or do everything. One doesn't simply just pickup any game and instantly be the best at it. It takes time, effort, skill, and luck; just like everything else in life.
What on earth makes you think you NEED to research? You don't have to research a damned thing if you don't mind being bad. I dare say most of the population doesn't do any research at all, they just pick up bits and pieces as they muddle along. Nothing wrong with that at all.

But if you want to do well, yes, funnily enough you have to do some background work. This applies in any MMO. Check out EVE Online, if you want to do well there, you practically need a degree in accounting and calculus to do well. But you can still muddle along without any research.

Your problem appears to be that you want to be knowledgeable, but you don't want to research either. Too bad.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum