Coming in 4.2: the Dungeon Journal

General Discussion
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05/02/2011 11:34 AMPosted by Squirrelthug
Can we have an option for the lore behind the boss/dungeon? like a second tab or something?

Yeah i remember them saying there was gonna be boss lore in this dungeon journal way back when they first hinted at it. I want that lore!

At the very least put all the lore you'd need to know in a book or in an NPC that brings up a unique interface. There is a lorekeeper in thunderbluff, well was there pre cata not sure where he went if he's not still there. But that guy could do the job no problem along with taking care of the mauradon quests he did. It would be nice to get all the info about the game in the game.

We're planning to include a little bit of flavor lore associated with each boss.
Seems to me like you guys are just slowly making all of the popular add-ons part of the game interface. This is sort of like what cartographer used to do for dungeons and what atlasloot does for finding gear. I'm just waiting until we get Blizzard-made healbot or tauntmaster so important raiding add-ons like these can stop being so damn glitchy.
Hey Neth - Maybe I should have just posted in this thread, if so Im sorry -- Link here to my post also in the gen forums:
(Atlasloot vs Dungeon Journal) etc..

Comments appreciated :)
Does this really solve the inherent problem with the raids, though?

Let's take the first 3 raids in Cata. BWD, BoT, and TOFW.

Why are we here? I miss the days of "raid quests" that'd lead you to a raid and make you want to complete it.

I'll take BRC as a great example of a dungeon setup. You find it from Hyjal and get a quest that brings you there and you follow the story of Raz as he plows through the place. While this sort of thing isn't optimal for a raid set up, something similar could be accomplished.

In Vanilla, you'd get quests for AQ in Silithus which made you want to raid it. If you were new to WoW, right...would you even know that BWD or BoT existed without trade chat? There are no quests to even guide you there, and while knowing why this boss must be killed is nice...if he's so bad and mean, why not a quest for it? Item rewards are, of course, not a necessity, but you'd think - at least - the King of SW would give a quest to kill that Nefarion fellow who is hovering over SW in that mountain over there. In the mean time, kill some of his abomination experiments while you are it.

I guess, in my view, raiding is summed up excellently by Adm. Stockdale: "Who am I and why am I here?"

I very much agree with this post. There should be questlines that lead up to events like the Battle for Undercity (why oh why was that taken out? It was my favorite part of Wrath!). The questline for the Onyxia key was epic (Alliance side, I wasn't horde back then), a great story all around winding up with a surprise in the Stormwind Keep (for those of us who didn't know who she was)--it was very long, but it made you feel very involved in the story. I haven't raided or did many dungeons since vanilla, the only thing I know about Cata dungeons is now it's 4 rehashed level 85 dungeons, I know nothing about the others.

I'm leveling a new healer and I'm determined to start grouping for dungeons, but there seems to be nothing in the quest chains that I've done that prepares me for any story inside, except what I know from vanilla storylines.
C'mon Blizz. It's not April 1st anymore :/
Completly agree w/ u Barand. Although I would not make the quests a neccessity to do the raids just a lead to them. So all of us w/ 20 differant alts wont have to keep redoing them over and over again=)
Okay, so this is a bad thing? Why not put it in the game? Would you rather have this or have noobs hit the window key and google every god damn boss? this is a great idea and should have been implemented ages ago. this is to help new players, this isn't for people who raid weekly and have all the heroic tier 11 gear. Think about it, when you first started playing, don't you think this would have helped? ALOT?
Are there plans to add any sort of information on boss phases? Such as abilities used in a given phase, when phases occur, etc., or will it simply give a list of all the abilities in the encounter?
Sweet cant wait. gonna help me in deciding which dungeon to go to to get gear :)
05/02/2011 09:58 AMPosted by Simar
Currently I have to scour the internet for this information, which really doesn't make sense.

I'm all for this idea, but I just have to say...

WoWWiki. WoWHead. Requires no scouring.
As a high end raider I have mixed feelings about this.

On one hand, I'm glad to see that the bosses will have a decent amount of information given to us without having to exchange information between guilds or combing through combat logs constantly. Basic mechanics will be easy to understand now, no excuses for not knowing the boss puts fire on the ground.

However, I do think this has the potential to kill off some of the excitement when it comes to approaching a new encounter. It really depends on how the stuff is worded, whether it be to give the players detailed information on the mechanics or just to give us a general "feel" of the fight. For example, saying "halfus' drakes will aid adventurers who free them", or saying "halfus drakes' will provide adventurers with X/Y/Z-detailed-buffs" are completely different, although I suppose in the end we'll find it out eventually.

I'm also curious if the descriptions will be unique for when the difficulty is toggled to and from normal/heroic difficulties or if the descriptions will cover only normal mode mechanics. I wouldn't be opposed to leaving some surprises for heroic difficulty.

Edit: Looking back at it, it seems that it's entirely possible this won't be included for raids. If this is the case then disregard everything I said!
As a high end raider I have mixed feelings about this.
I'm also curious if the descriptions will be unique for when the difficulty is toggled to and from normal/heroic difficulties or if the descriptions will cover only normal mode mechanics. I wouldn't be opposed to leaving some surprises for heroic difficulty.

^^ This, is a good idea. It lets you get a feel for the encounter your first time through it. Heroics are already easy enough. Maybe take this a step further and only have it for dungeons, leaving raid bosses alone.
You realize that what you said above is that you look up how to videos and the abilities on the internet for the boss fight....which is the same thing as blizz telling you the abilities in a tab in game. the difference is Blizz isn't telling you "how-to" so you can go ahead and wipe all you want. I just find it funny that you hate the idea of putting a tab in for this feature yet you want people to go online and look up how-to videos for the bosses which tell you the abilities and what to do as well?
I personally feel that this gives yet another reason for me not to quest or figure out the lore. Or even interact with my pug group such as, "hey who knows what I should do here?" As a newb prot pally I asked that question a lot. And because of that question I made quite a few friends and even got some great technique pointers from tanks who have been around the block. leave this functionality out, let the mod community handle it and work on something more worthwhile like, How do we populate the unpopulated areas of the world.

All I do now is sit in Ogrimmar, use dungeon finder, raid, maybe go to Tol Barad, go back to ogrimmar. Other than low level mat farming or toon re-rolling there is ZERO reason for me to putz around in old content. In addition there's no reason to gain rep from outdated expansion packs either as non of that content really helps me in cata anyway.

/rant off.
Sounds like just catering to the masses. Good business sense, but makes the game that much less challenging.
Bosses should drop loot tokens instead of loot, IMHO. It's silly that, after 3-4 weeks, most of the items are DE'd cuz everyone has that upgrade. A loot token system would solve that problem. Instead of 2 loots, each boss drops 2 tokens that people roll on. They can turn those into a vendor in SW for an expansive list of items that would normally appear in boss loot tables.

Certain tokens would allow access to certain items, which would prevent someone from gearing up by only killing, say, Magmaw weekly. Or other items would require 2-3 tokens rather than 1.

I disagree. I do not like this idea. Just tokens/points from all bosses would make the whole loot system exceedingly bland. Justice/Valor points are not exciting right now. They do serve a good purpose, smoothing out loot gain, but they're not really fun. You don't think "YES I JUST GOT 70 VALOR, WHEEE!" You think "ah, there's my valor, how much more do I need for something?"

No, I really don't want to see tokens from all bosses for all loot. That's so incredibly dull. Yeah, it guarantees loot drops, but Blizzard could already do that if they wanted to. They clearly want some randomness and chance of "loot failure" and I agree. I wouldn't turn down a slight tweak to the system. Maybe give loot that raid members can use a slightly better drop rate than unusable stuff. Say Int plate has a slightly lower chance to drop if there is no holy pally in the raid. But turn all boss drops into tokens/points?

No, thank you.
You're raiding because you want to progress in the game, and have fun with your guild, or maybe get epics. That's all.

If you want some kind of story, i suggest you read a thing called a "book".

No, I actually really like the story behind the bosses. It adds a lot to the experience. Many of the best instances had very, very good stories. Ulduar had a lot of lead up quests and lore to it, which greatly enhanced the experience of the dungeon.

I like quests and lore for the raids. They are significantly more fun when it's more than just "get loots."
Will the tool contain rare drop information too?

Like rare mounts and such?
05/02/2011 02:44 PMPosted by Nethaera
We're planning to include a little bit of flavor lore associated with each boss.

I hope it's more than a little bit.

I was a bit disappointed while raiding Icecrown Citadel, fighting the very last defenses of the Lich King, most of the bosses being NPCs I have never seen or even heard their names anywhere else in the game or in the books. Lady Deathwhisper, the _supreme overseer_ of the Cult of the Damned?

But then again, it's been like that ever since patch 1.0. It's better in Cataclysm.

I do realize that quests are the proper tools to fill a deeper lore need, so "a little bit" in this case is OK.

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