[PvE] Frost Mage Guide - 4.1

Mage
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07/11/2011 09:20 AMPosted by Icyheart
and when it comes to glyphs, glyph of frost nova helps much better than ice barrier when aoe is concered so you're blizzard gets more crits a little longer


Glyph of Frost Nova is useless since even that will break from other peoples' AOE attacks.

07/11/2011 09:20 AMPosted by Icyheart
and the extra absorb, again, not really needed cause if you manage to get less than 50% hp durring a raid enough to make reactive barrier to be needed you're doing something wrong.


Plenty of encounters are designed with you taking damage in mind, existing purely to give the Healers something to do. Beth'tilac, Ryolith, and Staghelm all do unavoidable AOE damage where that barrier could mean the difference between you living and dying (or someone else, for that matter).

On 10 man Staghelm (which is a joke compared to 25) I can throw up all three of my defensive shields (Mana, Ice, and Ward) and come out with over 70% of my life at times while most of the raid goes down to 30% or so. And the only reason I'm even considering Mana Shield is due to the 'free' mana from running Mage Armor (which further reduces the incoming damage since Staghelm's AOE damage is all Fire).
Yeah, what seiryu said is pretty much it.

bump for the raid week. please sticky!
07/13/2011 03:49 PMPosted by Seiryu
I can throw up all three of my defensive shields (Mana, Ice, and Ward) and come out with over 70% of my life at times while most of the raid goes down to 30% or so.


if you throw up your ice barrier before you took the damage then you're still wasting one talent point because it follows the CD, plus the gcd of it deosn't cost you much either. I don't have to take that talent and put up my barrier so i don't take initial damage, rather than have it come up when the damage hits me.
07/18/2011 07:34 PMPosted by Icyheart
if you throw up your ice barrier before you took the damage then you're still wasting one talent point because it follows the CD, plus the gcd of it deosn't cost you much either. I don't have to take that talent and put up my barrier so i don't take initial damage, rather than have it come up when the damage hits me.


The problem is, it's still the best talent point to pick among the ones you choose from.

  • It's already been thoroughly discussed that the 2 extra points in Enduring Winter are near pointless since Replenishment is still up all the time and it takes virtually no uptime away from mage armor.


  • Permafrost is extremely useless in a raid environment because your water element virtually never dies. And on the few times in the entire expansion it has died midfight for me, i've always been able to re-cast it.


  • Improved Cone of Cold is again, virtually never used in a raid situation. And in the times you are kiting for some reason, is much less of a bonus than the amount of times reactive will go off.


  • Shattered barrier has no use at all in a raid environment.


  • That leaves only reactive barrier which while not very good, is a thousand times better than any of the talents mentioned above.
    free bump from an epic mage.
    This is a great thread and should be stickied.

    That said, how should a frost mage value trinkets?
    This is a great thread and should be stickied.

    That said, how should a frost mage value trinkets?


    In what regard do you mean?

    If you mean by what bonuses it gives, just follow the stat priority list:

    Int > SP > Hit to cap > Crit to cap> Haste/Mastery > Crit after cap

    Of course, any trinket that gives raw intellect would be preferred, followed by hit/crit. It's not really something that's a well known topic of debate however. This is simply because each tier only offers 2-3 trinkets for caster dps. This specific tier only gives 2 actually, so you have no choice really.
    i tend to go more twards proc-chance trinkets over "use" trinkets as their buff, even though less, happens more often.
    Floating back to the top like an ice cube.
    07/21/2011 01:51 PMPosted by Switch
    This specific tier only gives 2 actually, so you have no choice really.


    Variable Pulse Lightning Capacitor off Ragnaros, Necromantic Focus off Baleroc, Rune of Zeth from Avengers of Hyjal. That's 3 choices for normal modes. Not to mention that Rawr is telling me DMC:V is better than all 3 of those. There's definitely choices to be made.

    For heroic trinkets, the Rune of Zeth falls off a bit, but the other 3 are still up there.
    Moonwell Chalice may be a competitive option once more people start picking it up. The on-use is nothing to sneeze at.
    07/23/2011 07:09 PMPosted by Judg
    Necromantic Focus off Baleroc


    Re-read the tooltip. This trinket gains it's "equip" benefit only from periodic spells. It's useless to frost and arcane and barely usable for fire (add the low amount of dots --relatively speaking--to how bad mastery is for fire mages and it's a terrible trinket)

    That only leaves the Variable Pulse Lightning Capacitor and RoZ (not to even mention RoZ can't be upgraded yet, so only ONE trinket in this tier is viable for mages, and it's off ragnaros..good luck). I said specific tier so DMC:V doesn't count.

    IMO, old gear should never trump new gear. That's blizzards fault.



    07/23/2011 09:25 PMPosted by Seiryu
    Moonwell Chalice may be a competitive option once more people start picking it up. The on-use is nothing to sneeze at.


    I, personally, do not see where the hype about MC is coming from. It gives barely more int than normal Theralions Mirror AND it gives less mastery with a higher cooldown....

    The only benefit is that you can "use" it.
    07/23/2011 09:25 PMPosted by Seiryu
    Moonwell Chalice may be a competitive option once more people start picking it up. The on-use is nothing to sneeze at.


    Compared to the benefit of the other trinkets and their effects, Moonwell Chalice is actually pretty bad, most of the T11 trinkets are better. Only time I see the best use for the Chalice's "on-use" effect is during Coldsnap when when your dps is at it's peak, which only happens once per boss fight (Sometimes Twice but rare). Other trinkets already either match or have slightly less or more Intellect then it and have a much more useful effect.

    Also, I wouldn't just throw Rune of Zeth out because it can't be upgraded. It's still a very good trinket for Frost.
    07/24/2011 01:52 PMPosted by Màv
    Compared to the benefit of the other trinkets and their effects, Moonwell Chalice is actually pretty bad, most of the T11 trinkets are better.


    And that's not the point-- the point is you now have a competitive option to run with. The trinket currently stacks with things like Engineering gloves and Soul Casket, whether intentional or not. Depending on how often you generate FoF charges (or whether you intentionally line it up with Frostfire Orb) you can have, on-demand, output that rivals Normal Theralion's Mirror proc effect.

    Arguing whether to use it over Heroic Theralion's Mirror is pointless.


    07/24/2011 01:52 PMPosted by Màv
    Other trinkets already either match or have slightly less or more Intellect then it and have a much more useful effect.


    That's assuming you even have them.
    Popping Moonwell Chalice with Frostfire Orb means every FoF buffed spell cast gains around 23% more damage for 20 seconds. Useable every other FFO cooldown. Doesn't seem very bad to me.

    I'll likely be trying out Chalice + Zeth when I get them. Pop Chalice with FFO. Zeth with Icy Veins.
    Popping Moonwell Chalice with Frostfire Orb means every FoF buffed spell cast gains around 23% more damage for 20 seconds. Useable every other FFO cooldown. Doesn't seem very bad to me.

    I'll likely be trying out Chalice + Zeth when I get them. Pop Chalice with FFO. Zeth with Icy Veins.


    Well, the on-use effect for frost is kind of useless. The spec uses so many skills in such a short time that virtually all trinket/light/power tor are up by the time you go into your beginning phases. You will miss the first without an on-use, but the 2nd one after deep freeze will most surely catch virtually every proc.

    Again, i actually kind of laughed at myself when it came to the Molten Front rewards. The items are barely better if not worse than t11 items. It's not even how the stats are barely raised, it's the stats chosen on the items. I guess it was put in for casuals, but i still want to see the tree and get the mount.

    Well, the on-use effect for frost is kind of useless. The spec uses so many skills in such a short time that virtually all trinket/light/power tor are up by the time you go into your beginning phases. You will miss the first without an on-use, but the 2nd one after deep freeze will most surely catch virtually every proc.


    How is +23% damage to "frozen" targets for 20 seconds useless for Frost? You have a short period every minute with Frostfire Orb where FoF/BF procs like crazy. There are some periods when it's up where I'm literally doing nothing but spamming instant FoF'ed Lances and FFB's; all of which are considered "Frozen" damage and are therefore buffed by the on-use mastery buff.

    Have you noticed the increase in complaints on the forums regarding shatter combo damage in PvP? Moonwell Chalice has a lot to do with it.

    Chalice 23% frozen damage + another non-shared CD on-use trinket + human racial = Killing people 100-0 in a Deep Freeze.
    How is +23% damage to "frozen" targets for 20 seconds useless for Frost? You have a short period every minute with Frostfire Orb where FoF/BF procs like crazy. There are some periods when it's up where I'm literally doing nothing but spamming instant FoF'ed Lances and FFB's; all of which are considered "Frozen" damage and are therefore buffed by the on-use mastery buff.

    Have you noticed the increase in complaints on the forums regarding shatter combo damage in PvP? Moonwell Chalice has a lot to do with it.

    Chalice 23% frozen damage + another non-shared CD on-use trinket + human racial = Killing people 100-0 in a Deep Freeze.


    This is my entire point though. Theralions Mirror gives about 26%..AND it has a lower cooldown. I can see how it could be awesome PvP wise, but regarding PvE it's fairly awful unless you lack any T11 trinkets.

    This is my entire point though. Theralions Mirror gives about 26%..AND it has a lower cooldown. I can see how it could be awesome PvP wise, but regarding PvE it's fairly awful unless you lack any T11 trinkets.


    ...but you can't guarantee that Theralion's Mirror will proc when your throwing the bulk of your "Frozen" damage out(during FFO) like you can with Chalice; which was MY entire point.

    Yes, Theralion's proccing during the refrain period of mostly Frostbolt spam would be completely worthless, but proccing during FFO + PF->DF is a pretty damn significant damage boost. Not only are you increasing the damage of those spells by ~23%, there all nearly guaranteed criticals.

    Chalice allows you to never waste the effect on a period where it won't do much(refrain).
    ...but you can't guarantee that Theralion's Mirror will proc when your throwing the bulk of your "Frozen" damage out(during FFO) like you can with Chalice; which was MY entire point.

    Yes, Theralion's proccing during the refrain period of mostly Frostbolt spam would be completely worthless, but proccing during FFO + PF->DF is a pretty damn significant damage boost. Not only are you increasing the damage of those spells by ~23%, there all nearly guaranteed criticals.

    Chalice allows you to never waste the effect on a period where it won't do much(refrain).


    Well, you obviously aren't actually reading what i'm saying.

    Well, the on-use effect for frost is kind of useless. The spec uses so many skills in such a short time that virtually all trinket/light/power tor are up by the time you go into your beginning phases. You will miss the first without an on-use, but the 2nd one after deep freeze will most surely catch virtually every proc.


    And saving trinkets after that 1st phase for times when FFO is up again will amount to a decrease in dps rather than just it proccing off cooldown all the time.

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