dungeon journal: down the spiral we go

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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I would settle with just the fact that the Journal would only display Normal abilities and separate it completely from heroic (or not even show heroic abilities)
05/15/2011 07:17 PMPosted by Vilespirit
As someone who's been raiding at a higher level than most of you can ever hope to achieve,

stopped reading here.

take your nose in the air self entitlment attitude and STUFF IT.

first: post on your "high level raiding" main, or noone cares about your opinion.

2nd: all the complaints about the heroic modes and whatnot being in the journal is the biggest load of "were super special unique snowflakes!!" i have EVER seen. you people, push to shove, are worse than the plauge of Carebears that joined wow in Wrath of the Cake Queen! "OH NO OTHER PEOPLE CAN GET THE DATA AT THE SAME TIME WE DO? ZOMGBBQ!"

Besides, for 90% of the wow community, they were getting the same effect as the journal from Tankspot. or youtube.

and for the same reason that attunement was taken out of the game, and that 40 man raids were abolished, the journal is here to stay. blizzard doesnt structure there whole game around 10% of the community any more.
Your case where you'd actually like it in a high end guild would be a very, very rare case.

Eh, there's probably more that wouldn't admit it or just aren't reading because people post more when they want to complain. Most guilds like mine that won't even be pulling it until after the first few kills can find all this information anyway, but having it in one place is convenient and saves time.

If the fights are all available on the PTR, then all the information on abilities and such would be made available anyways. How does having the journal make things any different? If you're chasing a world or realm first, wouldn't you have played on the PTR ahead of time to get practice? Barring that, you would have done any and all research available from datamining and the PTR.

It seems to me that all the information is already available for those who really want it, all this does is make it easier to find.

I could be wrong, I dunno.

I agree but if we do test HM rag on PTR (which we wont) no one will get to the last phase unless the fight is extremely easy. The rest of the HM mechanics would've easily been found out before 4.2 went live though.
05/15/2011 09:45 PMPosted by Thecheat
I don't like how some spells are given details about what to do regarding them. However, the suggestion to have this information locked until you see the spell cast once during an encounter is actually a good one I agree with. It would fit the theme of it being called a "journal."

Maybe, but then people would just go back to the web to find this info, since it will get posted for everyone as soon as a few people have unlocked it, or even earlier via datamining. Hence, it would be rather pointless to lock it, no?
Why did people bother making replies to this guy? Don't feed the attention-seeker.
The comment about what to do with the sparks for Rhyolith is excessive in my opinion. The comment about Magma Geysers being created when 4 people are together is not. Tell me WHAT is happening. Don't tell me what to do. Once I know that geysers are being created by 4 people near each other, I can then combine that to form a strategy. (do I want to create a geyser? where? when?)
My understanding was that the dungeon journal just provided descriptions of the various abilities not strats for the fights.
It's a really delicate situation that we will never really have an answer for. I mean this thread is full of opinions and honestly there is no right answer.

For encounters in general it's pretty clear how they are intended to be played out, but they always leave cushion room for you to it other ways. This is for multiple reasons. If they leave everything as a strict pass or fail you never get to see the fruits of your labor in acquiring gear because the encounters really don't get a lot easier.

My honest guess is they probably hit the nail on the head about half of the time with people following their vision of the encounter. Sometimes something they didn't think of at all becomes popular and mechanics are ignored. Sometimes these are fixed because of how they may trivialize the encounter, but more often than not.. they are left alone.

These kinda things date back to Vanilla itself.

Twin Emperors were never intended to be tanked by Warriors exclusively and there were mechanics in place to heavily impede this strategy. People still got around it by spamming battle shout in groups with pets such that it was difficult to pull aggro. Blizzard saw this as a problem (shouts causing too much threat in general) and changed it. Warriors could still double tank this boss (we did it) but it was a lot more difficult than before.

For Felmyst I am not entirely sure. The damage values were such that you could survive an entire group just eating the encapsulate damage, but I highly doubt it was ever intended for people to do that.

Twin Eredars is probably one of the more interesting encounters. I don't think anybody can say with a straight face that the way this encounter was done seemed right. The most popular strategy had everyone cramped on a balcony such that an entire mechanic was pretty much ignored. Blizzard allowed it, but I highly doubt that's how they intended it. I think the reason they let it stand was because doing it that was still incredibly difficult.

There's just lots of examples. Few guilds kited all the adds on Deathwhisper while others opted to kill them as they spawned. Sindragosa air phases strategy also varied massively. Some guilds spread out 10 yards in a line, others formed their blocks in columns of two and rows of 3. And a guild like mine who absolutely failed at Ice Blocks just made sure the people with the beacons were topped off, popped aura mastery and made them stack in groups of two.

Sometimes what seems like the most efficient way, isn't exactly the best way of doing things.
as someone who has been a middle of the road; in terms of progression in relation to top end guilds; raider my entire wow career, I like this change. I hate watching videos and listening to someone I don't know tell me about boss abilities, tbh I only watch encounter guides because the raid leader asks us to and I respect him enough to do so. \

the thing I don't quite understand about the complaints from top end guilds, if you're so concerned with the dungeon guide, why don't you just never open it? go learn the boss the old fashioned way if you're really that broken up about it. I mean it seems like most of you feel the same way, so why would any of you use it in the first place?
People talk about this new Journal as if players are actually going to read it or something...

For crying out loud, you can't get most people to watch a friggin' video (because apparently that's akin to "studying"...like they're working on a degree in physics or something); What makes you think they're going to put forth the effort to READ anything?

A substantial percentage of the WoW population can't even read patch notes. This Journal will change nothing.

(note: Obviously guilds won't have this problem, or at least not much, as their raiders will have done their research ahead of time regardless.)
Elitist tears mmmm
^what Serule said. Beautiful work. Special snowflakes not so special anymore.
I think for five man content the dungeon guide is a great idea. With raid content I really don't think it's neccessary.

I like the idea of the raid entries being gated until either a certain amount of time has passed or x weeks after a world first kill. Yes this wouldn't really impact that many people outside the top three or four guilds in the world but no one else needs the information before then. They get to have their fun (learning encounters blind) and people who progress at a slower pace still get the information and help they need. Everyone wins.

The only reason I can think of to not gate the information on raid encounters is to get some perverse joy of spoiling the game for people higher up the food chain.
Surely someone like you will remember the cluster#### that was the majority of raid bosses that got no beta or PTR testing.

Even when they do PTR testing the zones are a cluster#### anyways. We still have people falling through Magmaw's head when you need to jump up.

His head still falls backwards on rare occasions.

Blizzard needs better internal testing, not to use paying players as their slave labor testing team.

I dislike this journal (it isn't a journal by definition, unless everyones journal in life tells them how tomorrow is going to go) and I have never been a huge fan of PTR testing but as of now it has been necessary because Blizzard is god awful at making a fight not have multiple bugs in it at release when it isn't tested by paying players.

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