4.2 Conquest change

General Discussion
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problem is that organizing 10 people to do a rated BG isn't that easy

i'm had enough drama even trying to get 1 person just to do arenas for points.

pvping is far less popular than pveing

yea having to organize a 10 man group just to win 2-3 games of rated BG's to get point capped is extremely dumb
So, as many of you are interpreting this change, it is to encourage more participation in Rated Battlegrounds. We see the fact that participating in Arenas is by far the superior way of obtaining top-notch PvP gear, in terms of time investment, as a problem. If you want to maximize your Conquest Point gains in patch 4.2, you'll need to participate at least a little bit in Rated Battlegrounds.

We know this may not sound very appealing to those of you who have grown accustomed to spending as little as an hour a week getting the top PvP currency in the game via Arenas over the last couple of expansions. To put things in perspective though, the total number of items that can be purchased with Conquest Points today is much larger than what you used to be able to buy with Arena Points pre-Deathwing world explosion. And there is no longer a requirement to “grind” unrated BGs for Honor each season, so the real time investment isn't changing as much as some players are perceiving it to be.

On top of that, the frank reality is that the total time investment required in season 9 to get all your points has been much, much too low, as you could do that from a few 2v2 Arena games each week completed in less than an hour’s time. It shows that Rated Battlegrounds are currently sub-par in terms of the rate at which points can be accumulated.

We do feel this change is necessary to keep the time investment vs. high-quality item accumulation in check, even if it doesn't read well on paper. However, as always, your constructive feedback is welcomed. :)

Zharym could you care to explain the wording of the post? There seems to be a lot of people confused about how exactly this will work.

The way I understand the wording of the PTR notes as that, lets say, I am around 2k rating with my 3s team. That 2k rating in arena usually nets me around 2200 pts. So next week rolls around and I begin to grind out my Conquest Points by doing more 3s. Now if I understand this correctly, I will only be able to grind my Conquest cap to about 1500 pts, the other 700 or so will have to come from RBGs.

I think that's where a lot of players are outraged. We feel like we're being forced into committing a night to RBGs. I know I speak for a lot of PvPers when I say that we don't want to dedicate specific nights to WoW, however, with this change we will be forced into RBGs to stay competitive in arenas or fall behind as the season drags on.
rated bgs more like raided bgs amirite? thought this was pvp not pve
this has to be the worst idea ever to get people to do something they dont want to do....

if its too easy to get conquest points in arena do something about arenas

dont sit there and make them do rbgs...

if you want people to do rbgs make rbgs a better deal.. but not by messing with something else

we're not fools.... call it what you want you know its a change to get people to do silly rbgs since noones doing them and youve wasted so much precious development time on it.

or heres a better question?

what makes players that do rbgs deserving of a higher conquest cap than people who just play arenas?

are they better players? do they have better skills? im confused....

Its a pretty broken incentive really. The arena'ers will play arenas to get as many points as they can, and then feel obligated to do something they don't want to do to cap out.
I agree I don't PVP to get gear.
I only get so many hours a week to play Wow and I want to arena.
If your having trouble balancing around 2vs2, then make it so 2vs2 doesn't give conquest points.
Guess what, I'm still gonna 2vs2 because its really fast and easy to find someone to do them and enjoyable.

Put up and arena realm just like you do for competitions and let players free transfer to it. Hopefully you have a decent server cause I think your gonna get a lot of transfers.

What happens when you take the work and grind out of getting the gear? People actually try to play competitively and Arena is actually fun for all that play. Once you balance the game then profit. Problem is every expansion you try to make all these changes and all the balance you got from the previous expansion is gone for good.
it is to encourage more participation in Rated Battlegrounds.

However, as always, your constructive feedback is welcomed. :)

If it was all about time, I'd rather an even LOWER amount of conquest per arena win than the new amount of 180.

Unless the experience of participating in rated battlegrounds has changed from early on, I do not WANT to participate in rated battlegrounds.

My experience was a lot of waiting (never saw a queue shorter than 30 minutes), while of course being in a raid so being unable to do daily quests at that time. And I got Strands once (this was back in 15v15 - simply a terrible battleground whenever you do it) and WSG the other time (obviously before the graveyard changes - so camping in full force).

My constructive feedback would be for you, Blizzard, to make the experience of rated battlegrounds not suck (from my own experience - granted, strands is no longer an issue, but I don't know if queues are still an issue, and, strangely, not many on my server/in my guild express interest in rated battlegrounds).

But waiting for 30 to 45 minutes for queue to pop (trapped in a raid, so your gameplay while waiting is very restricted) and then playing strands and WSG GY camp-style was no where near close to being compelling. But that's my experience with them.

And you are forcing them on me, or forcing me to choose to gear up slower. Not brilliant, IMO.
05/12/2011 08:37 PMPosted by Gambles
Just scrap arena, it's not PvP anyway.

Actually, things like Alterac Valley, Isle of Conquest and Strand of the Ancients are a LOT more "not pvp" than Arena.

Arena is only pvp (however you view it's balance).
05/13/2011 01:41 AMPosted by Bigßear
The point I got is that people are reacting a ton for about 300-500 points a week which can easily be avoided and you will stil be fine and barely be behind if you choose not get them.

It'll be closer to 1000 points per week for me, and the point most everyone here is trying to make is that it isn't about "being behind" or anything related to gear at all. This is a very poor solution to getting people to do rated bg's. Does it make any sense at all to you that I'll earn my conquest point cap through arena, but will not be able to obtain all of the points for that cap through arena?

you can completely choose to not do them and it wont hurt you that much. Its not the "forced unwilling particiation that I cant avoid" that people are spelling it out to be. A fresh season will be starting so of course people wont be at the high ratings they are right now right of the bat and I stand by taht overalll you will lose 1-2 weeks if you do 0 rateds which isnt the end of the world.
Hopefully my vicious set I miraculously was able to acquire will last me through the expansion because I'm never ever EVER doing a rated bg.

You took out welfare pvp epics by not giving the losers anything when Cata launched. Then you decrease the amount of points you get for a win. Now you're trying to force Lightwell, er, I mean rated bgs down my throat. It was hard enough to find someone to do 2's with. Now with the decreased amount of points you get it's impossible.

Edit -

as a casual, pvp was the one thing i could do completely by myself. i won't have *the best* pvp gear but my set still allows me to survive and have fun. why all these changes now where you're forced into these situations of rated BGs. on my server when i see people in trade looking for rated BG, they ask for you to have an arena team of ___ rating. what is left for people who want to play without extra stress.

I was thinking about how I should have ended my post and this sums up how I feel.

I think that's where a lot of players are outraged. We feel like we're being forced into committing a night to RBGs. I know I speak for a lot of PvPers when I say that we don't want to dedicate specific nights to WoW, however, with this change we will be forced into RBGs to stay competitive in arenas or fall behind as the season drags on.

Yeah, this is outrageous indeed. Why should PvPer's have to commit to something harder to organize in order to reap the most benefits? Everyone should have the right to the best gear, with little time commitment. It seems beyond belief for players that commit to playing broader aspects of PvP should be rewarded. This is an insult to casual players everywhere who do not have, or perhaps do not wish to commit to, the time needed in order to be just as geared as players who dedicate more effort into organizing larger groups.

This is ludicrous I say! Where do you get the idea that implementing a model which rewards those that take the time to organize larger groups would actually be fair? I mean, have you seen how many people in here do not wish to take the time to do that?! It's so hard an difficult! Why reward that?

Seriously.....if you guys at Blizzard dared do this to those that participate in PvE only, I would assure you there would be a large public outcry. Gnomes would rise up and stab people in the shin, the Forsaken would be shocked back to life, and the entire Dwarf race would turn sober. :(
I understand they want to increase rbg participation....but this as a solution?

Good arena players that don't want to rbg are going to have 2700+ "arena conquest caps" and a 1500 "rbg conquest cap"

Does this mean that the arena player would be able to get 1000 conquest from arenas and miss out on the other 1700+ if he/she doesn't do rbg's?

Lame, hoping i'm dreaming or completely misunderstand this...
05/12/2011 08:59 PMPosted by Amkar
We do feel this change is necessary to keep the time investment vs. high-quality item accumulation in check, even if it doesn't read well on paper.

This misses the mentality of PvP however. I don't want a time investment to get uber gear, I want to get the gear I need to be competitive, and then PvP, and this just builds a higher barrier before I can do want I actually wanted to do in the first place. I don't want to have to participate in an arms race with each character I have before I can just go play.

I just wanted to quote this also.

I don't pvp for gear, I get gear so I can be better at pvp.

If there was no gear grind I'd still pvp. The gear grind just makes me dislike the pvp that little bit.

If I were fully decked out in the best possible pvp gear and at max honor and conquest cap for the week (I'm not that good to ever be in this situation, honestly), I'd still pvp.

But I can PROMISE you it wouldn't be in rated battlegrounds.

At least not in the current system. And you are not changing the rated battlegrounds system, you are just making it mandatory to maximize conquest for the week.

So it's now even MORE of a grind.

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