4.2 Conquest change

General Discussion
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You think that all the New Level 85's and such WANNA raid to get their max valor points?


This is the problem. It's taking a PVE ideology to design PVP. They ARE NOT the same. In PVE you can progress at your own pace. I know many who are still working on WOTLK raids. It's not a problem.

In PVP, however, if you do not gear at the same pace as everyone else, you cannot PVP. In PVP you are fighting other players not going into instances that suit your gear level. You are fighting all 85 gear levels. PVP should be about skill and strategy - not gear.

PVPers DO NOT play for gear; we gear to play.

If you try to design PVP around a PVE mentality, it will fail.

Don't you think if you fixed RBG's, made them accessible and fun, people would naturally do them? We would. Negative reinforcements aren't the answer.

We do not think pvping is a grind. We love pvp. We play battle after battle after battle, because that is what we enjoy. We don't do it to get gear. It's just a fact of the game that we have to have the gear in order to PVP, because steamrolling or being steamrolled is not our idea of fun PVP action.

The most fun in PVP is when two equally geared teams play their hearts out in a close game or match. PVP is more of a sports mentality. What are the most exciting sports games or matches you've watched or played? Usually it's the ones where it comes down to that last goal, or shot, or whatever for the win. In fact in sports, steamrolling and racking up excessive points is considered unsportsmanlike.

Use a sports mentality when designing PVP instead of a PVE mentality, and it will be more successful.

Yes, with the changes, your PVE raiding guilds will be happy with PVP, so those will continue. Others will start dropping like flies.

PVE'ers and Blizz do not seem to be able to comprehend truly why we PVP. We PVP because when equally geared, it's a rush; it's exciting; it's a test of skill and strategy. We PVP because it's fun. Again, we do not PVP to gear. We gear to PVP.

We do feel this change is necessary to keep the time investment vs. high-quality item accumulation in check, even if it doesn't read well on paper. However, as always, your constructive feedback is welcomed. :)


time investment vs high quality item should never be in pvp. Patch after patch you guys are implementing changes that ruin pvp competitiveness.

If you want people to spend more time in pvp, you could implement more cosmetic rewards, say for example achievements and additional titles (win 100/200/500 games above 1500/1750/2000 rating ), very cool weapon skins etc.

People should walk in to pvp with the best gear for a healthy and competitive pvp community.


This.
So what you're saying is transfer to a decently populated server with a good pvp community, and get in a good rbg oriented guild so you can participate in rbgs and reach the conquest cap even if you don't enjoy rbgs, just so you can remain competitive. If you can do it anyone can right? I like the way you think.


Not logical, if you want to remain competetive you would have already transfered to a good server with a good pvp community. The complainers are the ones who aren't competetive and want their welfare's in the least amount of time possible, hence the change.

If you look at the many of the top ranked arena players you'll see they are very active in RBGs. Look at Reckful, he's #1 in both arena and RBGs.


Oh God forbid we may want to play on a server with our friends who are PVE oriented and yet still get to PVP. That I guess is just too much fun to be had. Must squelch now.
So much for rated BGs being an "alternative" to Arena.

Your RBG's suck, deal with it. Don't like people accumulating points in arena quickly? Lower the amount per win (AGAIN,) but don't force people to play your poorly implemented BGs.

You missed the mark with RBGs, that's your cross to bear. Not ours.
05/13/2011 04:51 AMPosted by Dreadlycan
But the same could be said if I want to cap out on Valor, I have to find 9 competent AND GEARED players that know how to not stand in fire. (which seems to be more difficult than it really is with most players) And then make a wipe fest while trying to teach people new boss techniques, while the whole time having a constant massive REPAIR BILL. Not saying gold is hard to come by. But seriously, you think i want to deal with those Rtards?


But again...prior to to this patch, players could only get 490 valor per week without raiding. They can STILL get that same amount from running regular heroics. Plus they can get another 490 from running the troll heroics. So the amount of non-raiding valor actually doubled...on top of the availability of better gear, and cheaper AH epics. In fact, the only thing that really got lowered, was the amount of Valor one could potentially get from RAIDING each week.

That's really not comparable to saying "hey, if you don't do this thing that we really want people to start doing...we're going to cut your available conquest by 1/3". If they left the initial conquest totally untouched, maybe just said "we're taking on 400 additional conquest that you can initially get each week, if you do RBGs" I wouldn't have an issue with it.

But hey, maybe this will have the unintended side effect of keeping teams from busting up each week to get easy conquest points in arena.
05/13/2011 04:36 AMPosted by Arvernus
RBGs were a failed experiment. It happens. Accept your losses and move on.


But Blizzard won't move on. There is an ever increasing trend of them digging their heels in and holding fast to ridiculous changes, even when its blatantly obvious that a good number of their customers are upset.

This just shows that the company thinks too much of itself & will not accept that they may have made a mistake. An arrogant & sometimes fatal mistake for a business to make. Now don't get me wrong, I know that it would take alot more than a bunch of disgruntled players to break a business. But if this trend continues into their other projects it may start to hurt them financially.


I think it's the old mentality of "we already spent enough money and resources on this. We have to make it work or all that effort will go to waste. Therefore, we will force it no matter what."

Classic business mentality.
Now, if they really wanted to do something to PvP. how about the gear that requires ratings actually be better than the gear that is pretty much free, instead of just changing the color of it. Minus weapons..., the RBG, 3v3, and 5v5 gear has the exact same stats as the gear you can acquire from 2v2's, or even just grinding the valor points, oh i don't need any more of these valor points, let me get new PvP Epix.
05/13/2011 03:28 AMPosted by Flashahh
If you want people to participate, implement a RBG finder (similar to the dungeon finder in wrath) where people can put their name down with spec, stats etc. At present, if your guild doesn't do RBGs then you are at the mercy of the trade channel to find a group. Not sure about other servers, but finding a RBG pick up group is quite the rarity.


This. ON myserver, there is absolutely NO pvp LF in trade. If you try, you hear crickets. It's just NOT going to happen without a different way to find that group of 10 cross servers.
i will never do rated battlegrounds...unless they add in random queues..
So, as many of you are interpreting this change, it is to encourage more participation in Rated Battlegrounds. We see the fact that participating in Arenas is by far the superior way of obtaining top-notch PvP gear, in terms of time investment, as a problem. If you want to maximize your Conquest Point gains in patch 4.2, you'll need to participate at least a little bit in Rated Battlegrounds.

We know this may not sound very appealing to those of you who have grown accustomed to spending as little as an hour a week getting the top PvP currency in the game via Arenas over the last couple of expansions. To put things in perspective though, the total number of items that can be purchased with Conquest Points today is much larger than what you used to be able to buy with Arena Points pre-Deathwing world explosion. And there is no longer a requirement to “grind” unrated BGs for Honor each season, so the real time investment isn't changing as much as some players are perceiving it to be.

On top of that, the frank reality is that the total time investment required in season 9 to get all your points has been much, much too low, as you could do that from a few 2v2 Arena games each week completed in less than an hour’s time. It shows that Rated Battlegrounds are currently sub-par in terms of the rate at which points can be accumulated.

We do feel this change is necessary to keep the time investment vs. high-quality item accumulation in check, even if it doesn't read well on paper. However, as always, your constructive feedback is welcomed. :)


If rated BGs aren't as popular, why not make additions to improve it as opposed to forcing players now to do this even though they never wanted to originally?
05/13/2011 05:01 AMPosted by Magdasearus
If you want people to participate, implement a RBG finder (similar to the dungeon finder in wrath) where people can put their name down with spec, stats etc. At present, if your guild doesn't do RBGs then you are at the mercy of the trade channel to find a group. Not sure about other servers, but finding a RBG pick up group is quite the rarity.


This. ON myserver, there is absolutely NO pvp LF in trade. If you try, you hear crickets. It's just NOT going to happen without a different way to find that group of 10 cross servers.


On my server, people seem to put out requests for arena teammates all the time. RBGs on a low-pop PVP server? Dream on.
05/13/2011 04:51 AMPosted by Dreadlycan
But the same could be said if I want to cap out on Valor, I have to find 9 competent AND GEARED players that know how to not stand in fire. (which seems to be more difficult than it really is with most players) And then make a wipe fest while trying to teach people new boss techniques, while the whole time having a constant massive REPAIR BILL. Not saying gold is hard to come by. But seriously, you think i want to deal with those Rtards?


But if you don't, you can still PVE. You can still go into instances for your gear level and play at your own pace. In order to play, you are not forced to play against those who significantly outgear you. In PVP, if you do not gear at the same pace as everyone else, you can't play. (Because I do not call getting owned due to gear level and sitting a graveyard "playing" PVP.)
05/13/2011 04:59 AMPosted by Maiyr
That's really not comparable to saying "hey, if you don't do this thing that we really want people to start doing...we're going to cut your available conquest by 1/3".


Look at how much a piece of T11 gear costs. Thats 5 weeks (non raiding) pre 4.1 mind you. Conquest cap should have NEVER been anywhere near as high as it is currently without having alternate means of achieving. Think of it as normalizing instead of cutting. They are not taking anything away from you, at all. They are only balancing things. That's like me saying "Oh, so you give me too much damage from multi-shot, now your taking it away OH NOES!"

And if you have a problem in full bloodthirsty gear getting steamrolled. L2PVP........ The difference between full vicious and full bloodthirsty is roughly 5-7% damage reduction, and a relatively small damage increase. Random BG's will never change. Have fun grinding the honor for the gear, but there isnt any room to complain about it. The difference is tiny compared to what you folks are making it out to be.
I still don't understand why everyone thinks they are being forced into RBG's. Seriously, if you don't want to do them, don't. Enough said. Nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want to. So that argument is out the window already.

Second, as it has been said before... Blizzard isn't making anyone's life a horrible mess because they cant cap out without doing the RBG's. And they are not trying to make it harder than PvE. As most of you have noticed at this current point in time you are required to raid to achieve capping valor points... I don't see people that only run heroics complaining about it. If they don't want to raid, they wont cap out on points.

I guess the keywords to recognize is "NOBODY IS FORCING ANYBODY TO DO WHAT THEY DON'T WANT TO DO". They are only giving you an alternative that would allow you to reach point cap. If you don't want to have that as an issue, get better at arena's and raise your overall weekly cap.


If you're not running RGB's you're not maximizing your potential earnings. If you want to reach the cap and your potential each week, you will need to run RGBs.

Those that run them will have a gear and competitive advantage over those that dont.

This expansion has almost completely ruined pvp. Here comes another nail in the coffin.


I'm basically quitting after the TR is over. There are plenty of ways to nerf point acquisition without telling me that I have to do RBG's or face the dreaded PVP gearing curve.


Agreed.
05/13/2011 05:10 AMPosted by Dreadlycan
That's really not comparable to saying "hey, if you don't do this thing that we really want people to start doing...we're going to cut your available conquest by 1/3".


Look at how much a piece of T11 gear costs. Thats 5 weeks (non raiding) pre 4.1 mind you. Conquest cap should have NEVER been anywhere near as high as it is currently without having alternate means of achieving. Think of it as normalizing instead of cutting. They are not taking anything away from you, at all. They are only balancing things. That's like me saying "Oh, so you give me too much damage from multi-shot, now your taking it away OH NOES!"

And if you have a problem in full bloodthirsty gear getting steamrolled. L2PVP........ The difference between full vicious and full bloodthirsty is roughly 5-7% damage reduction, and a relatively small damage increase. Random BG's will never change. Have fun grinding the honor for the gear, but there isnt any room to complain about it. The difference is tiny compared to what you folks are making it out to be.


Not true. It has higher all over stats. Obviously I have vicious gear - not all yet, but I have played in all bloodthirsty, and I have played in half vicious. It's a HUGE difference.
05/12/2011 08:29 PMPosted by Zarhym
However, as always, your constructive feedback is welcomed. :)


Currently, there are 22 pages of replies with literally 100% opposition to this change. I don't think there is even one vote of confidence from a PvPer, even from a RBG-er.

So judging by what actually goes live, we'll get to see if our constructive feedback is not only welcomed, but listened to.

Bringing up the ease of acquiring PvP gear is completely irrelevant; You could always further reduce conquest point gain to increase time investment in PvP for gear. Forcing down the arena point cap in relation to RBGs only has one purpose, and that's to increase RBG participation.

I play on one of the largest PvP servers so this isn't a problem for me. My guild is huge and will be starting RBGs this weekend. But I used to play on a tiny server (Garithos) and these changes are not good for the community. In any case, these changes are coming too early; Forcing RBG participation without supplying the tools for more easily organizing RBGs is putting the cart before the horse.
If you're not running RGB's you're not maximizing your potential earnings. If you want to reach the cap and your potential each week, you will need to run RGBs.

Those that run them will have a gear and competitive advantage over those that dont.


False. The gear is still achievable WITHOUT having to step foot in a RBG. It just might take a little bit longer. PvP is a lot less Gear dependent than what people make it out to be. Seriously I have like 400 resil, and I do just fine in BG's. Because i know how to PvP, and i know how to play my class. When you learn that, gear becomes less of an issue.
05/13/2011 05:03 AMPosted by Kureha


This. ON myserver, there is absolutely NO pvp LF in trade. If you try, you hear crickets. It's just NOT going to happen without a different way to find that group of 10 cross servers.


On my server, people seem to put out requests for arena teammates all the time. RBGs on a low-pop PVP server? Dream on.


I know, and I agonized over the consideration of switching servers and leaving my friends. I hate having to choose between the enjoyment of playing a game on a server with my friends or donig what I love to do - PVP. It makes me sad and tired. That's when I know it's time to take a break.

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