New Raid system...no

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The point is also sailing over your head. Why would I worry about progressing through it if I know I can wait until 4.3 or 4.4 when the content will be nerfed? I'd get the exact same rewards but have to spend less time and effort to get them.


I guess that's one way to go. Personally, I'm a little more motivated because I know I don't have long to get whatever encounters down I can (doubt I'll see sinestra when it's still relevant) before it gets made obsolete by the nerfs.

05/24/2011 08:27 PMPosted by Cyberweasel
You two are missing the point. I am actually okay with these changes, I just don't think that people should be given the same reward (a Title and a Mount) for something that was excessively nerfed when other players had to do far more to earn it.


I notice you got Deathcharger's reins on 4/7/11 - you shouldn't have used those, since you played the dungeon after it got nerfed to the ground, both by outleveling, outgearing, AND having the dungeon nerfed in level and difficulty.

You got reins of the ravenlord 10/20/10 - again, after content had been nerfed to the point you don't even need a druid to do the content.

Obviously, it was an error on your part using these items, since you got them LONG after the nerfs occurred. The only people, according to your logic, who should be allowed to use these items are the ones who got them when the content was relevant.


I didn't get either of those from a raid, much less an achievement for completing a raid.
Everyone DOES have a chance to raid. You are just either unwilling or unable to take advantage and are demanding that the game change to better fit your "skill" set (or lack there of).


People are hardly demanding anything by going along with a system that's been in place for quite some time. Bash has even made it clear that the current changes are based more on player data.
05/24/2011 07:27 PMPosted by Bashiok
Blizzard, you do how little people post on the forums yes? how about doing some in game polls to really see what people want, and not what the idiots on the forums want


You want them to not be nerfed, you're on the forums...

Just saying.

By looking at actual stats, actual progression, time spent playing, where, and to what extent, we can see that most people are looking for more accessible raid content, so yes, we absolutely are able to tell without a doubt that the plan we're enacting is actually what players playing the game want and need, and are not just listening to people on the forums.


No. Your looking at the number of people who have not yet completed the progression and are assuming that they want it easier. If people wanted it easier they would'ave given up. The fact that more people are still trying shows that their trying to get better and beat the content. Nerfing the content down would be a slap in the face to them.
blizzard never balances the pve part of the game around rewards like titles or mounts, i don't understand the logic behind complaining about content getting nerfed to improve the ilvl of struggling guilds. i think bashiok missed a point that he should have explained to all the self proclaimed good players: you're not a good player unless you're helping other get to your level and blizzard, believe or not, is trying to help the newcomers catch up to all of you "veterans." if you want to be elitist then please go ahead and link us your heroic lich king 25 man kill at 0% buff, i mean getting your invincible and light of dawn at 0% was the right way to get it right?. also, to all of those saying they shouldn't nerf normal modes you're forgetting that by increasing ilvl you're helping people to get started on heroic modes.

The point is also sailing over your head. Why would I worry about progressing through it if I know I can wait until 4.3 or 4.4 when the content will be nerfed? I'd get the exact same rewards but have to spend less time and effort to get them.


I guess that's one way to go. Personally, I'm a little more motivated because I know I don't have long to get whatever encounters down I can (doubt I'll see sinestra when it's still relevant) before it gets made obsolete by the nerfs.


I'd just like Blizzard to answer this. If they are okay with sending that message, so be it. I'll vehemently disagree, I'd just like them to comment on what I see is a dangerous precedent for the future.

I didn't get either of those from a raid, much less an achievement for completing a raid.


However, those who got them when the content was relevant did get them in a raid. It was just nerfed down to a 5m so casuals could get the same reward easier (in the case of deathchargers reins).

05/24/2011 08:26 PMPosted by Brohk
The point is also sailing over your head. Why would I worry about progressing through it if I know I can wait until 4.3 or 4.4 when the content will be nerfed? I'd get the exact same rewards but have to spend less time and effort to get them.


You're right, that point did sail over my head. I took it for granted you progressed for the sake of challenge and progression, when apparently it's completely loot based.

Why indeed progress when you can wait for 4.3 or 4.4? Why not wait for one or two expansions from now? Why not 5.1 or 6.2?

I didn't get either of those from a raid, much less an achievement for completing a raid.


However, those who got them when the content was relevant did get them in a raid. It was just nerfed down to a 5m so casuals could get the same reward easier (in the case of deathchargers reins).


And it was still an RNG drop, much like when I got trolled by a blue who mentioned the Ashes of A'lar, there is a difference between earning something through Achievements and hitting the jackpot with a drop.

That's another point against these types of nerfs. Now I know it probably won't be an issue with the feverish pace that Blizz has been releasing content of late, but it will put your guild on the clock. You get it done by such and such a date or you get the choice of doing it on "easy" mode or moving on.


I'm move on, personally. For me, the cutoff date has always been when the next tier is released. I get as much done as I can in that timeframe. This time, I didn't do so hot and only got a few of the easy hard modes down. I'm hoping to do better in t12.
05/24/2011 07:27 PMPosted by Bashiok
By looking at actual stats, actual progression, time spent playing, where, and to what extent, we can see that most people are looking for more accessible raid content, so yes, we absolutely are able to tell without a doubt that the plan we're enacting is actually what players playing the game want and need, and are not just listening to people on the forums.


How can you honestly say that you know what people want and need by looking at a statistics page? Maybe people want a challenge, but don't come to the forums in order to defend their decision.

You can't presume to know what people want by just looking at a list of statistics.



05/24/2011 07:31 PMPosted by Bashiok
CRAAAAWLING IIIIIIN MYYYYY SKIIIIIIIIN


It's cute how we're not allowed to report blues for trolling.
This is pathetic! All this will do is produce is a bunch of entitles scrubs w/ 359 gear who will think they are better than they actually are. Then, when they jump into firelands with gear they did not earn, they will wipe continuously because they never learned to play and demand more nerfs until we get the snooze fest that was wotlk.

Thanks a lot blizz. This is the kind of stuff that makes me want to quit. The seven bosses in firelands better be awesome or this is one customer that will be going elsewhere.

I hate what games and sports are turning into. Everybody has to win there can be no losers. That's not what challenge and competition is all about. Just because I pay to play little league doesn't mean I should be guaranteed a place in the little league world series. Again, this is all about money not about making a good game.


Looks like you are one of those scrubs w 359 gear.
Come on dude, you are the typical wannabe hardcore, get some hardcore modes under your belt and then come tell us how you feel about the nerfs.
05/24/2011 07:31 PMPosted by Bashiok
CRAAAAWLING IIIIIIN MYYYYY SKIIIIIIIIN


you are my new favorite blue.

(which means something as I never had a favorite blue <_<)
05/24/2011 08:33 PMPosted by Kurnea
Why indeed progress when you can wait for 4.3 or 4.4?


That's what I have been asking. Why would people wait if they know they'll get everything more easily. We're not talking about future expansions, we're talking about the very next content patch.
05/24/2011 08:29 PMPosted by Brohk
I didn't get either of those from a raid, much less an achievement for completing a raid.


You got Reins of the rusted proto-drake 11/13/10 - did you use those? You shouldn't have, since you got it long after the content was both nerfed AND outgeared.

The point is, live what you preach. If you're going to throw a hissy fit about not being a special snowflake, then don't go after titles and mounts that you outgear and/or have been nerfed. How many of the Lich King titles do you have that you got long after the raids were no longer relevant? I count several.

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