Raid Updates for 4.2

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
Prev 1 12 13 14 26 Next
Items that drop in these nerfed raids and the sets bought with JP need to be reskinned to something other than what they were originally.

The stats are the same, but it's visually different. Both sides win.


Clearly a troll attempt. The better players are already or will be in better gear than this when 4.2 hits.

Move along.


It would take development, they may already make several skins, but you have no idea how much time it actually takes them to do that, You will be able to identify them through obvious ways, such as Achievement dates, Armory says when you get a piece of gear too, Just because you dont take the time to actually notice those features doesn't mean they need to change the skin of items, Plus more then likely it would alter all the gear, whether it was received before or after due to coding, So your suggestion wouldn't work either way.


They're going to make extra skins no matter what, what's your point? You don't even know what their developing environment is like, why are you even commenting on how much time coding would take?

And your suggestions for identifying them are not enough. They need to look different, visually. They didn't do the content on equal terms with me, so why should they look like it?

Hell the sets could very easily look COOLER than they do right now, as many of the skins they make do. I don't care, it just needs to look different.


Why should it matter how they LOOK, just because they were incapable of doing something on the same ground as you, it doesn't matter, and you're wasting your breath with such suggestions.
I'm happy about this change. I've done most of the normal content and about half of the heroic content.
I'm excited for this change because I want my alts to be able to raid, which now they will be even more able to, thanks to this.

Why should it matter how they LOOK, just because they were incapable of doing something on the same ground as you, it doesn't matter, and you're wasting your breath with such suggestions.


Because, they were incapable of doing it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. They want fair, and I'm suggesting something that is fair-- but there are two sides to that sword. And I'm not wasting any breath at all, thanks.

Clearly a troll attempt. The better players are already or will be in better gear than this when 4.2 hits.

Move along.


Because everyone will instantly have their T12 as soon as 4.2 drops. There are also current raiders who might not be able to do Firelands. Why should they be lumped in with people who couldn't hack it?
Will the Shoulder pieces and head piece of 359 still require the helm token and shoulder token to purchase them or will they be available with JP aswell?
An observation here before I leave work and this thread:

Most of the more progressed raiders (6+ heroics) are very much okay with these nerfs, I think there was only 2-3 in that group of high end raiders voicing their dislike.

Seems that the ones that are most against these nerfs are those who are close to finishing up Normals who are afraid they'll be clumped with the 'fails' who will get their Defender of the Shattered World so soon after they do.

05/24/2011 02:48 PMPosted by Drexar
Will the Shoulder pieces and head piece of 359 still require the helm token and shoulder token to purchase them or will they be available with JP aswell?

I'm pretty certain this meant what they had stated back at the end of Wrath, the vendor selling VP items will sell them for JP in 4.2, the same items. New VP items will be available to go with the reset of your VP (old VP gets converted to JP.) Not sure how the 4k JP cap get affected by this though.
Maybe you don't remember it as well as you like to think you do. Creating paid realm transfers was the slippery slope Blizzard rode to eventually creating PvE to PvP realm transfers.

Writing off any fears about this change setting a dangerous precedent being unfounded is absurd. Hell you said it yourself, nerfing the 5-man Heroics opened the floodgates and eventually Blizzard did nerf raid content.


Ok, I'll spell it out. Non-relevant instances have been subject to this treatment since the beginning of Wrath. The first time this concept really came about was at the end of BC when every single BC raid boss had their health cut by 30%. This was in the 3.0 patch to herald Wrath (I believe said patch also added Achievements).

This carried over to Wrath, except they were more deliberate in their nerfs rather than just absolutely gutting an instance. Naxx and ToC for the most part escaped this (although they probably did receive nerfs at some point, can't remember), but they were already grossly undertuned on normal mode.

So that leaves us with Ulduar, which got the nerfbat at some point in 3.3, and ICC which received a flat 30% nerf in 5% increments over time. I'm sort of ignoring Halion here as it was tacked on pretty late in the expansion to give people with Heroic ICC on farm something else to work on.

Long story short: It is really no surprise that major nerfs are coming to T11 in 4.2, when the content becomes irrelevant. They're even leaving Heroic Mode in tact. So, based on all of this, I see your doom and gloom attitude and "slippery slope" argument to be completely baseless.

Why should it matter how they LOOK, just because they were incapable of doing something on the same ground as you, it doesn't matter, and you're wasting your breath with such suggestions.


Because, they were incapable of doing it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. They want fair, and I'm suggesting something that is fair-- but there are two sides to that sword. And I'm not wasting any breath at all, thanks.

Clearly a troll attempt. The better players are already or will be in better gear than this when 4.2 hits.

Move along.


Because everyone will instantly have their T12 as soon as 4.2 drops. There are also current raiders who might not be able to do Firelands. Why should they be lumped in with people who couldn't hack it?


The suggestion remains irrelevent, You want to be a special little snowflake, when you yourself haven't killed nef, (alteast not with the toon you're posting with). There is no need to visually change gear just so you know who's not as "good" as you. Way to go with the consistant elitist attitude.
An observation here before I leave work and this thread:

Most of the more progressed raiders (6+ heroics) are very much okay with these nerfs, I think there was only 2-3 in that group of high end raiders voicing their dislike.

Seems that the ones that are most against these nerfs are those who are close to finishing up Normals who are afraid they'll be clumped with the 'fails' who will get their Defender of the Shattered World so soon after they do.


If I decide to kill Nefarian after 4.2, then my helmet should be a different color. Plain and simple. There is no double standard here.

On the same token, the stuff that I earned doing it the right way shouldn't be a carbon copy of what will come from doing it on "easy mode".

The suggestion remains irrelevent, You want to be a special little snowflake, when you yourself haven't killed nef, (alteast not with the toon you're posting with). There is no need to visually change gear just so you know who's not as "good" as you. Way to go with the consistant elitist attitude.


Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with that first part, aside from maybe a bit of irony.

And my suggestion is very relevant, as this will likely be the end solution when they invariably implement an "Easy Mode" in addition to Normal and Heroic.
It wouldn't take development time, Blizz already makes 3 or 4 extra skins for every armor set that don't get used, or get used only by an NPC or two.

The people who did the nerfed content need to be identifiable as to not cheapen the rewards we got by doing it the right way. You still get epics and content, raiders get to keep their sense of accomplishment. You need to be able to compromise, as well as raiders.

All you're doing is making yourself sound like a whiny special snowflake who wants to be able to look down upon the masses who clear BWD/BoT/TT4W later than you did. You already have your dated achievements; stop making raiders look like jerks.

Because everyone will instantly have their T12 as soon as 4.2 drops. There are also current raiders who might not be able to do Firelands. Why should they be lumped in with people who couldn't hack it?


Because only current content is important. If you want some sort of distinction, then get on the ball each time a new tier arrives.
It wouldn't take development time, Blizz already makes 3 or 4 extra skins for every armor set that don't get used, or get used only by an NPC or two.

The people who did the nerfed content need to be identifiable as to not cheapen the rewards we got by doing it the right way. You still get epics and content, raiders get to keep their sense of accomplishment. You need to be able to compromise, as well as raiders.

All you're doing is making yourself sound like a whiny special snowflake who wants to be able to look down upon the masses who clear BWD/BoT/TT4W later than you did. You already have your dated achievements; stop making raiders look like jerks.


You're right, we should just hand out gold medals to everyone who competes in the Olympics.

Now, obviously nothing in this game will take as much effort as it takes to even qualify FOR the Olympics, but the principle still stands: Color matters, even in games.

Clearly a troll attempt. The better players are already or will be in better gear than this when 4.2 hits.

Move along.


Because everyone will instantly have their T12 as soon as 4.2 drops. There are also current raiders who might not be able to do Firelands. Why should they be lumped in with people who couldn't hack it?


No, they (the better players now) will already be in full 359/372's and will most likely be in in 378's VERY soon after 4.2 comes out. 372's already have a different color, but you wouldn't know that would you?


You're right, we should just hand out gold medals to everyone who competes in the Olympics.

Now, obviously nothing in this game will take as much effort as it takes to even qualify FOR the Olympics, but the principle still stands: Color matters, even in games.


From where I'm sitting, you've already gotten knocked out in the qualifiers. Maybe you can get in as a wildcard in Firelands. /cheers

All you're doing is making yourself sound like a whiny special snowflake who wants to be able to look down upon the masses who clear BWD/BoT/TT4W later than you did. You already have your dated achievements; stop making raiders look like jerks.


You're right, we should just hand out gold medals to everyone who competes in the Olympics.

Now, obviously nothing in this game will take as much effort as it takes to even qualify FOR the Olympics, but the principle still stands: Color matters, even in games.


No, it doesn't you're implying you should be able to glance at a person's gear and look down upon them for not downing the content in the same time frame as you, when you yourself haven't finished clearing this content, We don't need them to waste more time with little changes like that.




Because everyone will instantly have their T12 as soon as 4.2 drops. There are also current raiders who might not be able to do Firelands. Why should they be lumped in with people who couldn't hack it?


No, they (the better players now) will already be in full 359/372's and will most likely be in in 378's VERY soon after 4.2 comes out. 372's already have a different color, but you wouldn't know that would you?


I knew you wouldn't be leaving.

No, it doesn't you're implying you should be able to glance at a person's gear and look down upon them for not downing the content in the same time frame as you, when you yourself haven't finished clearing this content, We don't need them to waste more time with little changes like that.


Time wouldn't matter if the content were remaining the same, but it isn't. It is being severely nerfed. THAT is why it should be different.

And it isn't a waste, when easy modes are implemented (and they will be), those sets will have a different color. For obvious reasons.
You're right, we should just hand out gold medals to everyone who competes in the Olympics.

Now, obviously nothing in this game will take as much effort as it takes to even qualify FOR the Olympics, but the principle still stands: Color matters, even in games.

.... -_- You're obviously trolling, but just in case:

If you already completed the current content (BWD/BoT/TT4W), then come 4.2 you're going to be working on Firelands. You will already have different gear. Jeezus. Tug on your e-peen by posting your special achievements in Trade or something.
You're right, we should just hand out gold medals to everyone who competes in the Olympics.

Now, obviously nothing in this game will take as much effort as it takes to even qualify FOR the Olympics, but the principle still stands: Color matters, even in games.

.... -_- You're obviously trolling, but just in case:

If you already completed the current content (BWD/BoT/TT4W), then come 4.2 you're going to be working on Firelands. You will already have different gear. Jeezus. Tug on your e-peen by posting your special achievements in Trade or something.


It will take some time before my gear is fully represented by the new tier, and there are many alts I have that may not even see their current sets upgraded.

Fair is fair, easy mode gets its own color.


No, they (the better players now) will already be in full 359/372's and will most likely be in in 378's VERY soon after 4.2 comes out. 372's already have a different color, but you wouldn't know that would you?


I knew you wouldn't be leaving.

No, it doesn't you're implying you should be able to glance at a person's gear and look down upon them for not downing the content in the same time frame as you, when you yourself haven't finished clearing this content, We don't need them to waste more time with little changes like that.


Time wouldn't matter if the content were remaining the same, but it isn't. It is being severely nerfed. THAT is why it should be different.

And it isn't a waste, when easy modes are implemented (and they will be), those sets will have a different color. For obvious reasons.


They aren't going to implement a 3rd difficulty, again no need for it. Look we get it, you want to attempt to flex your e-peen, Content gets nerfed overtime whether it's from overgearing it, or literally nerfing it, changing the gear from said content, even if just the color, is not needed, wanted, or necessary. Now get off that high horse that doesn't belong to you, and stop giving real raiders a bad name with that elitist attitude.
05/24/2011 02:50 PMPosted by Denik
Long story short: It is really no surprise that major nerfs are coming to T11 in 4.2, when the content becomes irrelevant. They're even leaving Heroic Mode in tact. So, based on all of this, I see your doom and gloom attitude and "slippery slope" argument to be completely baseless.


Then we'll agree to disagree. I think you're putting on a set of blinders and saying "Nope, not gonna happen ever because Blizzard would never do something they haven't done in the past!" which is a remarkably narrow-minded view. We've already established that Blizzard nerfed current content (5-mans) based on complaints of it being too difficult, we've already established that Blizzard will nerf the current content (raids) based on complaints of it being too difficult. What would be the next logical step if Blizzard hears complaints about the next tier (Firelands) being too difficult? Continue to lose subscriptions and tell the player base that is complaining "Hey, don't worry! We'll nerf it badly in the next tier so you can see it."?

The timing is even further cause for concern based on their past history, dramatic nerfs to every encounter immediately after one tier has never happened before. If you want to believe that Blizzard would never nerf the Firelands raid while it is current content based on complaints from the same player base who complained about the last tier being too difficult then so be it. I, and others, will remain worried.

I mean, hey, PvE to PvP transfers will never happen so why worry!

Time wouldn't matter if the content were remaining the same, but it isn't. It is being severely nerfed. THAT is why it should be different.


Sure it would.

Greater gear availability from firelands, professions, the new daily areas and currency vendors makes the difficulty of tier 11 much lower than it was at release. Even without a single nerf in 4.2.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum