Raid Updates for 4.2

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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With the upcoming content patch, 10- and 25-person Normal mode raid encounters will be receiving a comprehensive set of tuning adjustments to decrease their difficulty.
So, just to make sure I'm clear on this, these nerfs only apply to normal modes and will have no effect on the heroic difficulty? The patch notes don't really specify except in a few points, which makes it rather ambiguous.
I was in a group for Al-Akir the other night, only one person in the group had killed him before. I didn't even know the fight except "avoid bad stuff" and didn't even have DBM turned on (I hardly ever raid, its boring and people are bad). Yet we managed to kill him in like 6 tries.

This really needs a nerf?
Hey baddie loladin!

If it was so easy, why are you finally downing it now 5 months in?

Well, at least you can say you got it in before 4.2.
Believe it or not, there are guilds that put in a lot of effort for the current raiding, and for several reason just couldn't do it. These same people, however, were easily able to blow through heroics and every other piece of content in cataclysm. This left us with nothing to do. We couldn't do raiding because we hit a brick wall, unable to make progress. What we needed was something in between the difficulty of current raiding and 5-man heroics.


You were not able to complete it because you were not good enough too. Does that mean that it should be made easier for you? Should blizzard treat your guild like children that can't quite hit the ball yet? Just curiouse.
05/24/2011 11:54 AMPosted by Melenkor
With the upcoming content patch, 10- and 25-person Normal mode raid encounters will be receiving a comprehensive set of tuning adjustments to decrease their difficulty.
So, just to make sure I'm clear on this, these nerfs only apply to normal modes and will have no effect on the heroic difficulty? The patch notes don't really specify except in a few points, which makes it rather ambiguous.


"Normal mode" Reading is going to be harder than the damn bosses........
The way some of the changes were worded made me think that this was to both difficulties, not just normal (as in a few of them specified normal modes while most didn't).

All of these changes are for just normal modes, right?

With the addition of a new tier of armor and weapons, we want to make the previous tier more accessible in ways other than just a shift of currency type, so we are making item level 359 gear purchasable for Justice points in the upcoming content patch.


Neth, will t11 shoulders and heads still require their respective tokens or will they be purchasable with straight JP in 4.2, and if so, how much?
I'm glad my guild will finally be able to do any progression at all in raids now.
Why would it matter if they're nerfing heroic modes? Because the titles will become more accessible? No one doing heroic raids now is going to be doing heroic t11 raids on anything except maybe alts after 4.2 regardless.
05/24/2011 11:58 AMPosted by Crazzyeyez
Believe it or not, there are guilds that put in a lot of effort for the current raiding, and for several reason just couldn't do it. These same people, however, were easily able to blow through heroics and every other piece of content in cataclysm. This left us with nothing to do. We couldn't do raiding because we hit a brick wall, unable to make progress. What we needed was something in between the difficulty of current raiding and 5-man heroics.


You were not able to complete it because you were not good enough too. Does that mean that it should be made easier for you? Should blizzard treat your guild like children that can't quite hit the ball yet? Just curiouse.


Good job reading everything I wrote. I am saying that karazan was the perfect model for how the initial raiding tier should work. It starts off EASIER than heroic 5-mans, and ramps up to far more difficult. This makes the game better for everyone.

A game that tries to sell itself to a large audiance like this game needs to provide content for a wide range of players. Currently there is a big gap in the content. There is easy stuff, hard stuff, and really hard stuff. There's no range. For me, the easy stuff is all too easy. The hard stuff is actually probably tuned ok for me, but not for everyone in my guild...yet the easy stuff is still too easy for the entire guild. This leaves us with nothing but to play other games that do a better job at providing a wide range of content difficulties.
So is blizz only reducing the difficulty on older content tiers, or is raiding as a whole going to be nerfed a little bit? Will Firelands and (potentially) onward be a little less harsh for beginning raiders compared with BoT/BWD?

I certainly wouldn't mind. Many people in my guild are still struggling somewhat with the entry level bosses in those instances, although we're making steady progress.

Good job reading everything I wrote. I am saying that karazan was the perfect model for how the initial raiding tier should work. It starts off EASIER than heroic 5-mans, and ramps up to far more difficult. This makes the game better for everyone.

To many others, Halfus and Magmaw were the 'easy' boss you're are talking about.
Are the nerfs only for normal mode? if so i think that some of the nerfs will end up creating an excessive divide between normal mode and heroic mode -- for example with adds on Nef dieing after 33 seconds instead of 50 seconds it really changes the fight, and shadowblaze every ~15secs instead of every ~10secs also factors in completely changing the way adds are handled in nef p3 (it completely removes the soft enrage on nef p3 on normal as well)

Hey baddie loladin!

If it was so easy, why are you finally downing it now 5 months in?

Well, at least you can say you got it in before 4.2.


Obviously you missed the part where I said "I hardly ever raid" as in "I have been in a raid group maybe 5 times this entire expansion."

If I can not raid or hardly play this toon for 3 months and then step in and beat Al'Akir, it can't be that hard.

But keep up with the personal attacks... oh and "loladin" cause we are sooo OP or whatever (/eyeroll).

Good job reading everything I wrote. I am saying that karazan was the perfect model for how the initial raiding tier should work. It starts off EASIER than heroic 5-mans, and ramps up to far more difficult. This makes the game better for everyone.

To many others, Halfus and Magmaw were the 'easy' boss you're are talking about.


They aren't as easy as the hardest heroic 5-man bosses though. Again, you can't seem to be able to read. In kara, the first bosses were EASIER than 5-man heroics. That is not the case in cataclym. Try to read it really slow this time, and maybe it will sink in.

And by the way, obviously magmaw is not too terribly difficult, but it's still not the same type of ramp up we had in BC. Oh, and just to make it clear, BC was the xpack that finally put wow on the mark. Ever since then the subscription numbers have been stagnant, or having slight gains, and then losses (as we are having now).
Wow...
20% reduction to everything.

As much as I like nerfing bosses, that just seems so excessive.
aww I wanted to do the raid on alt, but not with all those nerf :O it's will be so easy since normal is already not hard at all :O
Let me be clear, I don't like the 20% nerf either. The problem is the designers were lazy in the first place. Instead of putting together a well thought out raiding tier that has an entire spectrum of difficulties, they missed the mark. They left a gap in difficulties between raiding and 5-mans that the game has never really seen before. There was no difficulty gap between BC heroics and raiding...in fact they overlapped. There was certainly not a gap between wrath heroics and initial raiding.
The problem is that currently there's no middle ground. The jump from heroics to regular raiding is steep enough that it leaves a lot of people with nothing to do.

Heroics are too easy for us, and regular raiding is too difficult. This wasn't a problem in BC because they made the difficulty overlap. Some heroics were harder than the initial bosses of raiding, and then slowly raiding difficulty started to surpass heroics as you went farther along in the raid. The current designers tried to make a challenging game like BC, but they lacked the insight that the BC designers had into properly providing an entire spectrum of difficulty ranges. Cataclysm is too binary, and it is killing the subscription base.


There is absolutely a middle ground right now, its called za/zg. Those places are considerably harder than the regular heroics. I don't personally care if they nerf normals, but come on, lets not make a mountain of of a mole hill here. Normal modes are easy, in fact, they were done in blues. BC raiding was still harder than this tier of starting raids, and you may think it isn't, but then you don't remember moroes before the nerfs.

It all boils down to people getting too used to how easy wrath was, and thinking it was going to be the same again. Raids should be difficult, they should required work from the raiders and be done flawlessly. Why should you be able to sit in a fire and still win, it makes no sense. If you take away the danger and difficulty, when you win, it's worthless. You get gear you don't deserve for achieving something that has no merit. Sure some people are happy with that, but real raiders don't want that.


To many others, Halfus and Magmaw were the 'easy' boss you're are talking about.


They aren't as easy as the hardest heroic 5-man bosses though. Again, you can't seem to be able to read. In kara, the first bosses were EASIER than 5-man heroics. That is not the case in cataclym. Try to read it really slow this time, and maybe it will sink in.

And by the way, obviously magmaw is not too terribly difficult, but it's still not the same type of ramp up we had in BC. Oh, and just to make it clear, BC was the xpack that finally put wow on the mark. Ever since then the subscription numbers have been stagnant, or having slight gains, and then losses (as we are having now).


Even I would have to say the BC heroics were overtuned, especially considering the gear they dropped. 360 cleaves, 1 shot trash hits on anyone not a tank.

I actually enjoyed the difficulty back then ONLY when I ran it with certain friends. No way that model/difficulty would've worked in the post-LK, LFD, random WoW we have now.

05/24/2011 12:12 PMPosted by Ablem
aww I wanted to do the raid on alt, but not with all those nerf :O it's will be so easy since normal is already not hard at all :O

Do it now? You still have a month+ at least.

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