Fix the Frostlord Scythe

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So I take it we're supposed to do a holiday for a scythe which is worse than blues we can get from running normal dungeons and for cloaks that will soon (in a week) be stomped by cloaks we get from a QUEST? What's the point to doing Ahune again? The pet doesn't have much worth for those of us that got it previously. The JP is a joke and is much too low compared to heroic bosses. The holiday bosses in WotLK always dropped 2 frost badges after the LFD queuing was enabled for them. So why don't they drop VP now? Or at least drop JP on par with a heroic level 5-man boss.

In BC, I remember the scythe was well used. In WotLK, it was also well used. In Cata, all of a sudden the staff ends up DE or vendor fodder instead of joining it's predecessors as having some time in the sun as being useful. The logic that the weapon can't be on par with ZA/ZG loot is poor since the cloaks are on par with the ZA/ZG cloaks. And, in addition to that, 4.2 is out soon so the cloaks will even be a waste of time when a quest reward is by far better.

The scythe can only be obtained in a bag that you can only obtain once a day for the duration of the holiday. So why can't it be on par with ZA/ZG loot? There's such a small window each year to obtain it. Many won't even see it drop. Give it an actual use. Either demote it to a vanity item or make it useful. It'll be vendor trash shortly anyway.
Making it ideal (stat-wise) now and it would stomp all over ZA/ZG weapons. It's fairly trivial to obtain so we're just not really willing to do that.

The solution we're considering would be to make it a 346 blue, but there are some designer-y issues and side effects of what a change like that would cause. Either way I don't think we would be keeping it purple and giving it Int or otherwise making the stats more ideal.

But anyway, those cloaks are pretty sweet, huh?


Stomp all over? Or just be equal to, which would be logical as it is part of the same tier/item level? If it's "trivial" to obtain, nerf the drop rate.

There's no reason for it not to be an i353, and equal-ish with ZA/ZG loot. That's how it was at level 80, being on par with the gear from the 3.3 Icecrown heroics, still not as high as the better Ulduar gear (previous raid tier), and well below Icecrown Citadel (we've also got a new raid tier coming out in a week...).
They should just do what they did with the Brewfest trinkets in wrath and just copy/pasta the stats.

ie. Coren's Chromium Coaster and Mirror of Truth

Just take the stats from Legacy of Arlokk and put them on Frostscythe of Lord Ahune and tada! Legacy of Arlokk frosty edition.

I'd also like to note it's not like the scythe is incredibly easy to get, you can run Ahune everyday for the entire holiday and not ever see it.
Making it ideal (stat-wise) now and it would stomp all over ZA/ZG weapons. It's fairly trivial to obtain so we're just not really willing to do that.

The solution we're considering would be to make it a 346 blue, but there are some designer-y issues and side effects of what a change like that would cause. Either way I don't think we would be keeping it purple and giving it Int or otherwise making the stats more ideal.

But anyway, those cloaks are pretty sweet, huh?


Only the 2 options? Think a little bit please. Instead of giving it the 300+ int of the ZG staff just give it 200 or so, trading in the appropriate amount of Stam. At this point it's about the equivelent of a 300 blue as far as benificial stats for a caster.

But really be honest, you didn't even put that much thought into it being the same as the ZG staff. You guys just scaled up from last years (after the SP conversion) with the usual stam buff that all cata gear gets.
06/21/2011 12:27 PMPosted by Bashiok
What happened to re-adding the scortchling to the game? >_>


It's available in the 4.2 daily hub. :D


Wait wut? The tiny fire elemental dude will come back to the game? /jubilation!!!
Once I get it I'll only need a wind elemental companion to complete te set <3
I'll be like one of those silly shamans!
Making it ideal (stat-wise) now and it would stomp all over ZA/ZG weapons. It's fairly trivial to obtain so we're just not really willing to do that.

The solution we're considering would be to make it a 346 blue, but there are some designer-y issues and side effects of what a change like that would cause. Either way I don't think we would be keeping it purple and giving it Int or otherwise making the stats more ideal.

But anyway, those cloaks are pretty sweet, huh?


Hi Bash, thanks for the reply.

(Don't take this as being negative) . . .My response is something like "so what?"

- It's a rocking weapon with a great history that's only available once a year for a limited time.

- It's only going to be good for a little while longer.

- With the firelands dropping in a week, the weapon will be far from "best in slot" - in fact a full 3.5 tiers down (counting heroic tiers).

- It's actually not that easy to get, as you have to get it in the once per day loot bag you get.

- People will still run ZA/ZG for all the off-pieces.

Why not let all the cool kids sport one when running our raids and instances for a little while? Otherwise we get it, say "oh cool", and then DE it.

People DEing this staff makes me :-(
As much as I don't care for incendiary posts like ones like this can be, I have to say I agree with the OP.

The rules for itemization differ from class to class, spec to spec, but one thing is true among pretty much all casters and it is that is that Intel is king. This was a deliberate design choice to make people care about primary stats and less about derivative stats. So making a weapon that clearly dismisses this is puzzling at best.

I understand that you wouldn't want this item to be so good that players would forgo all other options to have it, but making it so poorly itemized is an irritating compromise. It's like having a pair or fist weapons (cough cough) where one has agility and one has strength on it (and some odd haste proc when combined). Sure it is better than a green, hell even a blue, but wearing it and using it feels like crap because you know it is so poorly itemized for you.

This leads me to my point. If you guys (Blizzard) want to give us the players the impression that you are creating useful gear that you in fact want to be used, then make it. Providing weapons in game that are garbage and no one really wants to use doesn't make the better weapons seem any better, nor does it provide the level of choice or customization you may think it does.

I do have to say, 700 stam, hahahaha, I crack up every time I see it. Hey while you are at it I think some agility weapons are too good so why don't you just turn it all into stam while you are at it? k thx
They should just do what they did with the Brewfest trinkets in wrath and just copy/pasta the stats.

ie. Coren's Chromium Coaster and Mirror of Truth

Just take the stats from Legacy of Arlokk and put them on Frostscythe of Lord Ahune and tada! Legacy of Arlokk frosty edition.

I'd also like to note it's not like the scythe is incredibly easy to get, you can run Ahune everyday for the entire holiday and not ever see it.


Good point! Having holiday gear comparable (even identical) to other gear currently available in the game has never been a problem before.

Bashi's comment is his usual cover story for the dev's oversite. Sorry Bash, it is what you do.
06/21/2011 01:29 PMPosted by Galbrei


It's available in the 4.2 daily hub. :D


Wait wut? The tiny fire elemental dude will come back to the game? /jubilation!!!
Once I get it I'll only need a wind elemental companion to complete te set <3
I'll be like one of those silly shamans!


Like I posted earlier, his information as of the latest PTR build is inaccurate. The Scorchling is nowhere to be found in the Molten Front daily hub.
Making it ideal (stat-wise) now and it would stomp all over ZA/ZG weapons. It's fairly trivial to obtain so we're just not really willing to do that.

The solution we're considering would be to make it a 346 blue, but there are some designer-y issues and side effects of what a change like that would cause. Either way I don't think we would be keeping it purple and giving it Int or otherwise making the stats more ideal.

But anyway, those cloaks are pretty sweet, huh?


Ok... I really don't get this logic. A random drop you can't effectively grind for (the staff) which has awful itemization vs. a cloak I can run over and over and over again and roll need on when I want.... hmmm. Darn silly "logic" by Bliz.
I say we add Agi and spirit to confuse everyone.
Be sensible guys.
We can't have folks who haven't beaten Jindo getting good things, now can we?
Beating one holiday boss isn't really earning it is it? Heck no it's not!
That's welfare gear, and we don't want that. No Sir.
Gotta earn it.
/sarcasm

I assume this means when Hallow's end comes up, you're REMOVING THE STRENGTH from the sword and helm?

Cause you know, if casters get shafted on a "not hard to get" item, then why should every other type of player get a "not hard to get item" that is actually good for them without any negative side effects? >_>

EDIT: Oh, and removing the agility from the brewfest mace and dagger? Cause you know, we can't have that either.

Honestly, why can't you make the scythe into a Spirit based staff? We DON'T HAVE AN ilvl353 SPIRIT Staff. The first Scythe had spirit on it, is it that much of a stretch? That way, Jindo's is still better for warlocks and mages, but then hybrid dps casters and healers have a spirit staff for once.

EDIT2: Also: Firelands comes out next week. God forbid you allow an easier to obtain staff that drops off a boss every single non raider can agree needs a nerf. The raiders can get the firelands staves. The non raiders typically leave once they hit Jin'do. I wiped like 13 times on him tonight because of incompetent DPS.
This QQ cracks me up. Even when Ahune came out in.. '08? I think? .. the scythe was mostly for aesthetic value. I know that both of my casters had much better at that point. People who desperately need SOMETHING can still get SOMETHING to wear. Thats pretty much been the story of the staff for years. Why are you complaining now?

Also, happy they updated the cloaks. I had alts that needed love.

Wish I could farm for the pet, though. Although knowing I can try once a day on my main lowers the stress. I hope the drop rate isn't too bad /cross fingers.
06/21/2011 12:27 PMPosted by Bashiok
What happened to re-adding the scortchling to the game? >_>


It's available in the 4.2 daily hub. :D


Best post ever.
06/21/2011 01:45 PMPosted by Bronnfire


It's available in the 4.2 daily hub. :D


Best post ever.


No, not really. As I've said twice now, the Scorchling is nowhere to be found on the PTR in the new Molten Front daily hub.
Whoa whoa whoa. There are items in the game that are just awesome looking, but not really usefull???



TO THE FORUMS!


I lol'd. :D
This QQ cracks me up. Even when Ahune came out in.. '08? I think? .. the scythe was mostly for aesthetic value. I know that both of my casters had much better at that point. People who desperately need SOMETHING can still get SOMETHING to wear. Thats pretty much been the story of the staff for years. Why are you complaining now?

Also, happy they updated the cloaks. I had alts that needed love.

Wish I could farm for the pet, though. Although knowing I can try once a day on my main lowers the stress. I hope the drop rate isn't too bad /cross fingers.


Makes a huge difference now that they changed how Int works compared to then.
Wow I didn't even realize it had no Intellect. How foolish. Saying it would 'stomp all over ZA/ZG' is ridiculous considering it's the same ilvl, would be equivalent at best, and is only available for 2 weeks.

Also I love how you talk about adding Int (and you know, removing the huge Stam) would make it 'stomp all over ZA/ZG' yet the cloaks that drop are of the same quality as the cloaks in ZA/ZG, a guaranteed drop, and that's okay.

Sometimes you need to take a step back and think about what you're posting before you try trolling the boards Bashiok, it's embarrassing.

Save the hassle, just make it a shard to roll on.

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