Ask The Devs #10 - Damage Dealing (Answers)

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Q: Could you find a way to give a sense of responsibility to damage dealers as much as tanks and healers already have in instances? – Raghnar (EU-FR)

A: First off, DPS often do have important roles in fights, whether it’s banging gongs for Atramedes or interrupting during the Nefarian encounter, or just knowing to run out of the dragon breath in the Drahga Shadowburner encounter in Grim Batol (since the healer can’t possibly keep you alive through all of that). On any given encounter, we tend to give responsibility to a few DPS players instead of all of them, and we think that’s ultimately a good thing. Not every player wants a ton of responsibility and we don’t think it would be good for them, or the game, for us to force those players into high-pressure situations. It is a game after all – it’s supposed to be fun. If challenging is what’s fun for you, well, that’s what Heroic modes are for. We think most players understand that taking on the healing or tanking roles is going to come with more responsibility, and those roles in turn tend to attract players comfortable or interested in having more responsibility.

Going even further, we’d say that one of the reasons our current raid encounters are considered so difficult is that the failure mechanics are fairly steep. We have a lot of “you’re the bomb!” spells where if you fail to run out of the group, you can kill not only yourself, but the entire raid. That makes it harder to bring along inexperienced players or new recruits to see a boss encounter. Maybe those type of mechanics should stick to the Heroic modes of the fights, where everyone is presumably signing up for a lot of individual responsibility.

I don't know about you, but 9 times out of 10 when I random into GB, I know some idiot is going to miss a giant red beam that is connected to them and get themselves and at least another person dead because of it. But I digress, I don't see bomb mechanics as a bad thing, everyone should be concerned with their surroundings and their own debuffs. I also don't mind having extra responsibilities when I heal or tank, but it's rather surprising you think that dps have responsibilities at all. Interrupting is not hard, clicking a gong once every few minutes is not hard. The problem comes when we switch to hard modes and suddenly (as always) the extra responsibility is put on the healers shoulders (and sometimes tanks).

Blizzard's mentality for every heroic is "lets make it harder for healers, make it so if they miss a gcd the tank dies, oh, and add a ton of aoe damage". The whole triage concept flew out the door. Add more bosses that have periods when they can't be attacked or the attacker gets debuffs that will kill them, or having a mechanic that has the dps have to go click openable items or something. Before that happens, let's stop pretending using a global to interrupt if the casts happens on a cooldown that's longer than the tanks interrupt is "responsibility".
Also to all you QQing about what questions got answered, go check out the shaman and rogue class forums. People actually organized and posted links to all the rogue/shaman questions (page upon page) during the ask phase so we could upvote and we ninjad the QA, rightfully so might I add.

Simple logic at its finest.

As did other classes. This isn't a popularity contest alone. Do you honestly believe that everyone wants to hear about two or three classes? Each class should have received an equal number of questions, with the questions for each class being selected by popularity.

Also to all you QQing about what questions got answered, go check out the shaman and rogue class forums. People actually organized and posted links to all the rogue/shaman questions (page upon page) during the ask phase so we could upvote and we ninjad the QA, rightfully so might I add.

Simple logic at its finest.

I just want to know why the hell a frost mage pve question got answered.

That doesn't seem inherently right since we already have 2 well performing specs at the moment.

A better upvoted question could have been answered.
06/24/2011 11:06 AMPosted by Ascendent
(and they do happen to have at least one viable spec in game)

For DPS, no, we do not.

Enhance and Ele are both near the bottom.

Overall, we have heals! /creepythumbsup
06/24/2011 11:04 AMPosted by Sothe
....Something I cannot do.

False. You make a healer.

That said, I'm extremely disappointed with both of the Q&A's. More so the tank one, but that's more because my tank spec has many more problems than my DPS spec, both of which were ignored. I've always disagreed with the 'Hybrid Tax' argument, but definitely think Rogues need a little something being both pure and melee, and having some pretty terrible mechanics with it at that.
Extremely, extremely disappointing Q&A. As expected, half the questions were stupid Shaman questions. I hope they will stop flooding Q&A threads with their bull@#*% now.

Might as well not bother with those.

I can agree with you, that half the questions were stupid Shaman questions. There were much better Shaman questions to pick from.

There isn't going to be any more Ask the Devs after this healing one, and it is probably for the better. They don't actually answer anything. It's just an opportunity to confirm things that most people (who care) already have figured out.
Ok blizzard first off alot of these questioned answered this week were things people could already find out over the internet or if they actually have common sense or a frigin brain could figure out! #2 why wasn't specific question answered answered like what is with the big nerph to warrior's and not most other classes, nerphed there dammage there threat generation abilities but left dk tanking alone and buffed unholy abilities again,and you also left feral alone and pally tanking and dammage alone why was this specificly implemented,going from 10% to 5% is just too much i think for a reduction in dammage for fury i mean litterly you cut there melee up time in half dont you think that was way to much, or is it that the qq'ers knocking at your doors got clearly on your nerves too much and you said hell with it, for many exsp. now you have nerphed the warrior class some good in a way but others just retarted move and i for one beleave this to be a dumb move!!! and befor everyone starts acting all high and mighty play a warrior for a bit befor you actually make comments about the dame class.
I'm thinking they should make a part 2 of this. There is so many dps specs that one just wouldn't cover it.

To ench/ele shammys: You got decent answers. They will NEVER have 100% direct answers. It means they haven't made up their mind so be patient. It's really not THAT bad.

To hunters: was your class in dire straights to warrant many answers?? Last time I checked all 3 specs were pretty decent and MM was tops. Oh and this is a DD ATD; not pvp(thus why your pvp questions went unanswered. p.s. now can you please stop hijacking the DD forums??).

To people wanting a dps meter in-game: LOL I loved Blizz's answer to it. People do have an unhealthy obsession over it and having in game would mean that people can point to "official" evidence of why their class is bad. Yeah not a good idea.

To the Warlock community: I have to agree that their should have been 1 answer. Yeah warlock dps is fine, but it doesn't mean that certain things about locks are fine(felguard single target dps I'm looking at you).

To rogues: Well now I predict the population of rogues will dip some more. So why would you want to play a dps toon(melee to boot) that has sub-par target switching when the reason is for this is "flavor"?
06/24/2011 11:11 AMPosted by Karamok
It comes across as a sincere, but misplaced admission of enh shamans concerns to the exclusion of all other classes who deserve equal representation in this presentation to the community.

This is very true. For this ATD they should have posted the general dps questions here followed by a link to each class's forum for class specific answers.

There are too many dps classes and specs to cram under one umbrella. It's obvious that they didn't try to but this should have been handled by category. If they are going to take so long to provide answers at least give more variety and care in the selection. This could have been posted two days after it was locked.
I to am surprised in the short list of Q&A's for the largest part of the community.

Although I do thank you for taking the time to answer our questions! :) TY
I wonder why people are bringing up PvP questions, Isnt this supposed to be about damage dealing and pvp was AtD #2
I enjoy reading these comments.

Everyone thinks that Shaman's got what they wanted.

Blizzard blatantly evaded answering the better of the Shaman questions. In addition, the answers they gave was all information we already established.

The only thing we got out of it, is that they know there is something wrong and they don't know what to do. And don't forget, they like the idea of spellpower weapons(something that the community doesn't want.)
06/24/2011 09:00 AMPosted by Kaivax
We have also made the alternatives to the positional requirements much less of a DPS loss than they used to be. If you go into your Mangle rotation instead of your Shred rotation, your DPS will drop, but not catastrophically.

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true given the current functionality of Glyph of Shred. If Glyph of Shred were instead Glyph of Extended Rip and worked with both Mangle and Shred, it would only then be true.

Even with alternatives being close to the abilities with positional requirements, it still doesn't justify the positional requirement in the game's current climate. Once upon a time Backstab was among the hardest hitting instant attacks in the game and its positional requirement a counterpoint to it, but now every melee class in the game has an ability or two which are Backstab's (and Shred's) equal. The positional requirement simply feels archaic.

If removal of the positional requirement would blur the lines between Mangle/Shred and Backstab/Sinister Strike/Mutilate/Hemorrhage then make other changes in addition to the removal of the positional requirement. Make Mangle into another bleed (I think I just heard a thousand Ferals groan) or have your first Mangle do double damage after using Savage Roar. Fact is, I'd love to have a reason to press the occasional Mangle while in the presence of an Arms Warrior. Similar changes could be made to enhance Backstab, Sinister Strike, Mutilate, or Hemorrhage to keep those abilities flavorful.
Love the lack of attention to Retribution. While the DPS after the 4.1 buff is better the play style is still so much RNG and just unpleasant. Takes some concentration in order to keep high DPS going and when I'm trying to dodge fireballs, interrupt and salv the warrior who mashing 4 buttons compared to my 7-8 and RNG procs of course is about to pull threat off the tank its really annoying. My main has been Retribution since TBC but at this point I'd rather go back to the FCFS-style (which by the way is what Frost and Fury basically have) we had in Wrath.

If I don't see some serious Ret changes soon I'll just join the bandwagon say screw my Ret and be ready for the next expansion... World of Magecraft.
We appreciate the answers.

But is that it?
How about talking about another class that is not a shaman?

06/24/2011 11:24 AMPosted by Neryssa
Hey buddy, at least you GOT some love. There's crippling issues with Warlock/Hunter PvP right now and both of them got absolutely nothing.

That was Q&A thread number 2. These answers are for PvE, in case you can't read.

And shamans are fine in PvE.

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