Ask The Devs #10 - Damage Dealing (Answers)

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As an aside, this is the kind of question we were really hoping to get more of with this series. It’s open-ended, potentially interesting to a lot of different players, and not just a thinly veiled demand for buffs.

People tend to be curious about their class and the biggest issues with their class=( No need to be mean QQ
06/24/2011 12:36 PMPosted by Tristalia
so what your saying is its never the fault of dps at all? so its always the fault of the tank or the healer when a target that was killing your healer (adds) and you do nothing to cc the target(s) group wipes you blame the tank cuse they didn't pick up adds yea i could never see you raiding my friend! lets say heroic grimbotal first boss purple trog what you do just sit there and not cc the target you just let him go over to the boss wipe the group cuse the tank takes increased damage and boss dose increased damage and there are more purple trogs cuse of it very smart idea too bad it dont work! lol

i didn't say any of that stuff ^^ blizzard said it. Just read the question on tank and healer responsibility.l

I don't care about raiding really. The reason is this - You cannot control the consciousness of you're teamates -

That's why i don't raid, Pvp, or play WoW much. You have to have faith that you're teamates have as much awareness as you do you're self.

Again i didn't say anything, i was making a Pun attempt. If you believe what i say, don't belive it. Read the answer blizzard gaves on why tanks and heals have more or less responsiblity.
06/24/2011 09:07 AMPosted by Nayaga
Is this all that is being answered?

Omg - whine, much? Srsly, this is better than the tanking one in a few ways - #1 The answers are longer (arguably, more in - depth) # 2 Seemed like they answered a range of questions (altho Shams MAY have gotten a lil more) # 3 I didn't see a stupid question like in the tanking one (can you make taunt not miss? Bro - alrdy did it).

And quite frankly, we should be happy they've been willing to do this at all instead of pulling a - - you'll see when it happens and making us constantly guess.
ok ok i admit it i re read it good pun but still as a tank/healer myself its just annoying to have all the blame put on to just those two peoples shoulders alone!
pvp issues. they may not have made it clear, but you can tell by the questions they answered that they were paying attention to pve concerns. pvp was a while ago for Q&A

problem with this is some classes use pvp abilities for pvE damage. And vice verse.

Worse still.... is when a person complains on how bad a class sucks in PvP and PvE (like i did about warriors a time back)

In the end, the human factor of paying attention, and fast reaction speed, can make or break you're DPS and can be the difference of Survival and Death, in PvP.

Blizzard can balance the classes perfectly, but if you lack Tactics, or human reflexes WELL..............................................................
06/24/2011 09:16 AMPosted by Gulnak
Total avoidance of the ranged vs melee issues on raid encounters = fail imo.


That's why i don't raid, Pvp, or play WoW much.

Wait, whaaaat? Seriously. Why are you here? Exactly?
Trisalia i Agree. Like tank and healers are the bread and butter of any group.

Or cleric and Fighter. The DPS classes can do extra damage and control that the healer and tank cannot do.

But man tank and heal is a heavy responsibility because you have to take the lives of other nerds in you're hands !

Ugh the drugery.

the best part is the fact that the healer and tank do their jobs (50%) of the time because they love people, love teamwork, and love to assume a social friendly "role"

DPS is not a social friendly role when you got to beat em in the Recount. Some DPS may rig the recount or not offer buffs because they wish to succed over others.

Yea tank and healing is hard work xD it sucks....
I love the fact that they're taking the time to answer our questions but...

Q: Rogue is the only pure melee damage dealer class, however their overall damage is lower to compare with other pure DPS classes (like mages, warlocks and hunters) due to obsolete mechanics. We lose a lot of DPS while switching between targets, which happens rather often in Cataclysm encounters. Redirect ability is useful of course, however its cooldown is way too long and at the same time you can’t redirect poisons and some other effects from one target to another. Taking this in mind, do you have any plans to change rogue mechanics in the nearest future?

Seriously? You don't even know the classes correctly and you're asking questions like this?

06/24/2011 12:59 PMPosted by Angrôn
Total avoidance of the ranged vs melee issues on raid encounters = fail imo.

Q: A majority of the fights in T11 favored having little or no Melee DPS. Are there plans to fix this? – Merissa (NA), Espiritu (NA)

A: We view this more of a class problem than an encounter problem. It used to be the case that casters really suffered whenever they had to move, which was the penalty they paid in order to make up for the fact that melee took a lot of extra damage. Nowadays, melee classes don’t really take that much extra damage, and we’ve also given casters a number of movement-oriented tools designed to keep their DPS from dropping as much as it used to when they are asked to shoot-and-scoot.

Whenever there are situations in an encounter that encourage grouping, the ranged often move into melee (with the occasional exception for hunters), but melee never move to ranged. Any of the fights that punish clumping also tend to punish melee more. We recognize all of these problems, as do many players, but it’s challenging to address them quickly. For example, without compensation, casters would suffer a lot in PvP if their movement tools were suddenly stripped away.

In the meantime, we don’t want to over-constrain encounter design, or worse, make it feel very formulaic by getting to the point where players expect the “melee fight” to be followed by the “adds fight,” followed by the “Patchwerk fight,” then the “ranged fight.” We’re making sure that melee have some fights where they can shine in Firelands. To use just one example, the Sons of Flame on Ragnaros tend to be better handled by melee than ranged.

They already answered it "Shrug"
I think warlocks are the most over powered class in the game.
Warlocks, don't really have problems, well the problems are warlocks need to be tuned down i think.

Yea, there are lots of problems. Mostly when you have to play Beethoven's 5th on your keyboard to do competitive damage, or in the case of single target demo, terrible damage.
Wait, whaaaat? Seriously. Why are you here? Exactly?

Because programmer notes and balance and judgements stimulate my brain.

I love looking at MMO-champ blue notes. To see the balance, the judgements, the fairness or work arounds.

I guess i love this ---

tactics, and scheming, and testing. Good stuff. xD
In the end, the human factor of paying attention, and fast reaction speed, can make or break you're DPS and can be the difference of Survival and Death, in PvP.

ok i can see your point here but like with the big nerphs to warriors this coming patch i be leave that they went lil over board with it, they are basicly thinking everyone is going to be in top gear in 2-3weeks time. when that's just a small portion of there player base, like shield bash nerph and devo nerph. cant for get the nerph to both fury and arms spec's as well. the thing is they want each class and role to be equal but if you look at the threat generation of a pally and dk over a warrior. the warrior loses out to the pally and the pally loses out to the dk cuse the dk has so many more utility for aoe agro then the pally and the pally has more threat from aoe and just spec alone, warriors lose out! one more thing nice job balancing the spell reflect for pvp but tottaly forgot about the pve aspect all together!
i think everyone's DPS is flat, but firelands is coming out. Especially when there is already problems occuring.

Besides a DPS's Damage does not make or break the class.

That is why warlocks are so OP in addition to offering damage they can - they can do tons of other things.

But other classes like THE PURE DPS ROGUE if the rouge cant do damage what is he could for?


he can pick you'r locks, pick you're pockets and he can do mediocre CC and he can GO stealth !

YEA lots of extra goodie options. I'd pick a warlock over a rogue anyday for a raid group. EVEN if the rogue did better damage then the lock.

** hybrids are owning this expansion. Druid feral (kitty) is always better choice then any rogue, no matter how good there dps is, just pray the druid (who does awful feral dps) can rebirth or provide raid mark buff etc etc **

a dps class then can do a lot of stuff is a good dps class. Rogues however, but bring BIG numbers are they are not worth a raid slot. in PvE.

AND YEA warriors are kind of gear depedent. But warriors need a healer. a Solo warrior is a dead warrior = (

Good post blizzard, a little short but good.

This was the longest Ask The Devs we've posted. I was a bit surprised when I had to split it into two posts.
there seems to be some fail hate going on in this thread. ppl complaining about questions not getting answered....ones that have been answered before. and ppl wanting more questions answered.

i think they answered enough questions, and i think most of the questions were just too specific / a waste of time to answer. 'Are you going to ever buff _____?' the answer is yes or no, not everything needs an explination, and those kind of questions can have much too large of an answer. We dont want to buff ____ because of x, instead we buffed y. yadda yadda yadda.

on the other hand i appreciate the answers to the broader question.

The one comment I have is, you say you model dps not only in current tier, but also in future tiers, yet arcane mages still work the way they do. It seems to me that they are a spec that grows TOO MUCH from more int on gear. I know you say that you tweak classes more often now, so you are less worried about that, but it seems ~wrong~ to have scaling issues to a degree where every raid tier you have to nerf or buff a spec to bring it back in line.

The biggest thing that sticks out here to me is arcane mages, they scale just like healers.

More int = more ab4 potential
= more regen from mage armor / replenishment / evocation
= spells costing less of total mana pool, making each point of mastery worth more it
= allows for more haste to burn through your mana more
= flat dmg bonus cause int is spell power afterall

its very similar to healer scaling, and looks less similar to other dps scaling.

ofc i dont say this as a professional theorycrafter, just as someone with a handful of alts at 85. Arcane is going to be a spec touched every patch because of this, at least once. In the end it will hurt new 85's more an more keeping geared 85's in check.

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