Attention: Growl is NOT a Taunt.

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So everyone is clear, there is a trick with growl. It's not so much a bug as a *feature* Most pet abilities can be set to auto activate. Initially, if a pet ability was not on your bar, then it would not be used. But as they added new pet abilities they've never increased the size of the pet bar. Additionally, there was a bug where some would go off, even if not on the bar. Mainly growl. What many, many hunters do not know, is that if they drag growl off their bar while it's auto-activated, it will still cheerily be firing off from within their spellbook. And as yet, the vast majority of hunters in pugs (I've found) do have growl on. And when it has dash/charge and reached the mobs at the same time as the tank, and is usually on a different target, they pull threat frequently. Which is again, what I usually see hunters do. It's annoying.
Again...if the tank had poor agro why was it only the pet who drew agro? I see people responding to this thread in complete ignorance of this issue..saying the tank had poor threat....sorry but that just doesnt add up. He didnt say that HE or any of the OTHER dps or even the HEALER drew agro off the tank...ONLY the PET. While it was a beast mastery pet....I tend to doubt the pet put out more dps than the hunter himself did and the pet certainly did not out agro threat the healer if growl was turned off...so how did this happen? It was most likely NOT the tank's threat.....something else cause this....bugged agro....a special pet ability that peeved the marked skull mob off the instant the pet used it?

STOP SAYING THIS WAS THE TANK'S FAULT..THINK PEOPLE....
What pet did you have out?

Certain pets will have aggro skills even WITHOUT Growl turned on, if you specced them with certain talents.

Tenacity pets (like turtles) can be specced with "Taunt" and "Thunderstomp" and it will go off even if you have Growl turned off.

If those two skills are specced to your pet and you don't disable them they'll build up aggro.

And those two skills both create LOTS of threat. If they are not on your pet bar, they'll probably be "active" in your pet's Spellbook since they are on by DEFAULT once you spec them until you turn them off.

Which pet did you have out? Was it a Tenacity Pet?
If I had 10 gold for every tank who asked/complained/raged about me turning off Growl then,
I still wouldnt have enuff to buy them a clue.
I do not have it on.. I do not even have it on the pet bar..
My pet attacks the skull or assists on the tank if not marked.
90% of the time Misdirection in on the tank before any pull.
My pet is on passive and does not attack random mobs.
Its not my pets fault for your failed attempt to be a decent tank.. ty very much. :)


And you gave yourself away right there...you dont have growl on the pet bar....oh really? Well open your pet spellbook...you might be surprised to see that the ability was mysteriously toggled on and was running when you thought it was not. I ALWAYS keep growl on my pet bar just to make sure it is in fact OFF. If you dont have it on your pet bar....you dont know for sure that it is off. Should it stay off? sure. Does it always? NO...this is a known bug.
What pet did you have out?

Certain pets will have aggro skills even WITHOUT Growl turned on, if you specced them with certain talents.

Tenacity pets (like turtles) can be specced with "Taunt" and "Thunderstomp" and it will go off even if you have Growl turned off.

If those those skills are specced to your pet and you don't disable them they'll build up aggro.

And those two skill both create LOTS of threat.


OMG..someone who isnt just pawning this off on the tank...you stand out in a crowd. Of course it had to be his pet that was doing something wrong here. The healer, the hunter and the other two dps had no issues with threat...but the pet, which should be doing at least lower dps than the hunter and most likely lower than the other two dps...drew agro....and he blames the tank. Brilliant! The pet was most likely using some special ability that is jam packed with threat such as thunderstomp or the one the striders do with kicking dust into the mob's eyes. If so, IT WAS NOT THE TANK'S THREAT...silly hunter.
06/30/2011 07:46 PMPosted by Eitakrazal
I actully turn my pet's cower on in instances when on my hunter. Just helps ya know.


The way Cower works these days, there's no reason to turn it off, except the movement penalty, which in my opinion is no reason. Of course, as has been said, it's now a damage reduction, not a threat reduction.

Of course, running Beast Master helps in that you get extra pet talent points and so can afford a point or 2 in "Improved Cower".

;)
[quote]Maybe stop being rude and/or lazy and just click it off? If you are causing trouble you should be told to stop what ever is causing trouble.

What I am having a problem with is your statement that it's not a taunt. I'm not saying it is, but it increases threat more than it normally would. In that sense, it's not okay for a hunter to use it.



Look up "Growl" and read what it says.

You, as a Death Knight, have the ability "Dark Command". Read what the tooltip says for that. "Dark Command" is a Taunt, and works like the Warrior Taunt, it forces the target to attack the Death Knight. Growl doesn't do that. It's more like a short-term version of Vengeance, it increases threat when it's used, but it doesn't force the target to attack. (It really isn't like Vengeance because it doesn't cause other abilities to have more threat like Vengeance, it is just a threat boost itself, and a short-term one, while Vengeance works all the time, but I hope you get the idea. Vengeance helps with threat but doesn't force a mob to attack the Death Knight; same is true of Growl, it increases threat for the pet but doesn't force the mob to attack it.)

;)
That's because the situation is very fishy, and we're only hearing one side of it.

Here is what he has stated:

1. Growl was turned off.
2. His pet pulled aggro off of the tank.
3. He was only doing about 75% of the tank's dps.

This begs the following questions:

1. His dps (the hunter's) is split between himself and his pet. Usually about 40-60 in my experience. So the pet was only doing a much smaller fraction of the tank's dps. So the question is: how the heck then did the pet pull aggro.

2. Assuming everything in #1, why weren't the other DPS pulling aggro off of the tank? Was his pet doing so much amazing damage that only his pet was pulling threat? I doubt it. If growl was off and the tank is just that bad, then the other dps would have been pulling threat also.

3. At the very least the hunter himself would have been pulling aggro before his pet assuming growl is turned off, so why did his pet pull instead of him?

I will echo the person you are quoting in saying that it's probably the pet's fault, in light of these points.

In any case, I also call BS on growl being off and the pet pulling aggro before the hunter or any of the other dps.
J

So I was running through a PuG BRD run last night on my baby hunter, and my pet kept pulling the skull off the pally tank that was 3 levels higher than I was. Now I want to be clear here, I had Growl turned off. I've been playing since classic AS a tank, so I know what I should've been doing and shouldn't have been doing as a Hunter.

But my cat kept pulling anyway simply because the tank's threat was low. I even pulled my pet off him and cycled with the tank's current target. I did everything I could possibly have done to reduce my threat to the point of being under the Tank's own DPS by like 25%.

I should point out that we were never in any danger of dying, my pet can easily tank a few mobs while I mend it and down the mobs' heath. But the tank was getting pretty angry at me, and tried to "instruct" me that Growl, (that was off anyway) was and is an actual "taunt".

We spent the whole run arguing over it. As I've said, I was a tank in Classic. I've spent a whole lot of time over the years studying the class and mob abilities SO I could be a good tank. But he just kept insisting, and pretty soon he had the whole party against me.

_________


It was just a typical pug, everyone just assumes the hunter is a retard, and I've learned to let it roll off me, but this particular run just really got to me. So I'd like to inform you that even when growl is on, which it wasn't in this case, it is still NOT a taunt. Growl is just a high-threat ability like Shield Slam or Revenge, but without the damage. It generates a set amount of threat, but will not pull unless the tank's threat is just that low. Which, it shouldn't be.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=2649
just admit you had growl on and you're officially a huntard and we can all move on heheh ;)
06/30/2011 10:47 PMPosted by Toadfrogg
If the tank can't hold aggro off the pets growl then he can't hold aggro off the hunter who has the pet and should switch to face rolling dps instead of facerolling a tank.


While Growl isn't a Taunt, it is a massive threat boost, so this kind of statement is ridiculous. No DPS puts out the kind of single-ability threat that Growl does.

Saying things like this is a good way to discourage people trying to learn how to tank and gearing up.

06/30/2011 07:35 PMPosted by Stormtides
It was just a typical pug, everyone just assumes the hunter is a retard


Haha, so true. I hate playing my little hunter in groups because suddenly *I'm* the retard - which I'm never accused of on any other class. (And I also hate that my pet adds another level of uncertainty - I swear sometimes it does weird stuff when it's not supposed to!)

But on the other hand when I'm tanking I just don't care if a pet pulls something. You want to tank it? Fine with me. If the pet dies I'll get it back. I don't get why some tanks are such control freaks over that. As long as we're getting through the dungeon and no one is dying and the healer isn't going oom, I don't care if people off-tank.
I think everyone seems to be missing a bigger picture here. Growl or no growl, a mid 50s BM pet does an extraordinary amount of damage compared to players. Kill Command threat, which hits really hard at those levels, goes to the pet, not the Hunter. I had this same problem when I recently leveled my hunter. At first in random dungeons I chalked it up to inexperienced tanks or the fact tanks don't have all the tools they have at higher levels. After it happened with multiple tanks I realized that it was the pet just doing insane amounts of damage compared to everyone else. This is just a game mechanic fault, but if you absolutely had to put blame on a player, it would be the OP for improper pet management.
07/01/2011 08:16 AMPosted by Fishnchips
In any case, I also call BS on growl being off and the pet pulling aggro before the hunter or any of the other dps

I thought so too, at first. But you evidently didn't read my post at http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2743697171?page=6#111 where I explain how it is possible.
I'm saying this as a long time Prot Warrior player, so don't misunderstand me. But WoW is not Starcraft. The classes weren't ever intentionally supposed to be perfectly balanced in PvE. In classic Warriors couldn't do a dang thing without a pocket healer with them.

Granted, Warriors are much, much more capable in Cata, but you get my point.


1) you didnt explain how it would break hunter soloing... nice side step bro

2) That doesnt mean its cool for classes to have the ability to solo uber things others cant... BUT more specifically it means if that class LOSES the ability to solo uber things that others cant, ITS NOT A PROBLEM.

So like I said, pets shouldnt have growl. MD should just be a lvl 10 ability and maybe the glyph effect for MD should be made baseline to the spell itself.


Speaking as someone who also plays a Demonologist Warlock with a Felguard that no longer has any threat causing abilities - yes, the Hunter pet should have Growl.

If you don't want to solo with your pets having Growl on, then turn it off.

People like you think in terms of instances and raids, and think like soloing is a stepchild thing and should be looked on with distaste and given little thought. I'm here to tell you, not everyone plays like you do, or wants the same things you do. Soloing as a Demonolgist while still in lower level gear is a pain in the rear end, and the reason is because of thinking like yours - balancing for so called end-game and ignoring the rest of the game. It's just plain stupid. Why a game should be balanced for running the same handful of instances over and over again is beyond me, anyway.

Don't get me wrong; I enjoy raiding, I enjoy instances; but I also enjoy solo content - in fact I enjoy it more than the other things. What I'm saying is the game should be designed for all these play types, not just raids (or PvE as raids and PvP), and the one thing Cataclysm has done is make the classes work less well in solo content, generally speaking, except the Hunter. Rather than bring the Hunter down to the level of the other classes, if the devs want to "balance" them in terms of soloing capabilities, they should bring the others up to the level of the Hunter.

;)
While Growl isn't a Taunt, it is a massive threat boost, so this kind of statement is ridiculous. No DPS puts out the kind of single-ability threat that Growl does.

Saying things like this is a good way to discourage people trying to learn how to tank and gearing up.


This is the misconception.

Growl does not put out ungodly amounts of threat. A tank should have no trouble staying above the threat line, even against a growling pet. It just happens to be the go-to blame game because it generates threat. While players should have this off in dungeons, the issue is not Growl.
While Growl isn't a Taunt, it is a massive threat boost, so this kind of statement is ridiculous. No DPS puts out the kind of single-ability threat that Growl does.

Saying things like this is a good way to discourage people trying to learn how to tank and gearing up.


This is the misconception.

Growl does not put out ungodly amounts of threat. A tank should have no trouble staying above the threat line, even against a growling pet. It just happens to be the go-to blame game because it generates threat. While players should have this off in dungeons, the issue is not Growl.


I'd agree at max level. The OP is mid 50s and a tank can have threat issues at those levels vs a BM pet w/o using growl.

Growl does not put out ungodly amounts of threat. A tank should have no trouble staying above the threat line, even against a growling pet...While players should have this off in dungeons, the issue is not Growl.


I'd agree at max level. The OP is mid 50s and a tank can have threat issues at those levels vs a BM pet w/o using growl.


You are both right. In the 50-60 range, growl deals 320 threat. While a tank can have a hard time keeping aggro off a non-growling BM pet, the growl itself is not really the issue. The only time the growl would be an issue is if the tank and pet were neck-and-neck for aggro already. But, 320 threat isn't that much.
06/30/2011 07:50 PMPosted by Serrias
2) will only provide bad hunters with reason to leave Growl on. Yeah, you had a bad tank. Yeah, Growl isn't a taunt. Yeah, Growl was off. But please don't make a thread that seems to send the message that not a taunt


It also gives BAD tanks and excuse for their suckage. If Growl = more DPS for the hunter then by all means growl the hell away in my groups. I have no problem holding agro from a 20k pally, hunter, mage, warlock or rogue.. Warriors for some reason or other love to die.. /shrug.

but seriously, if you can't keep agro on multiple mobs there is a button on your left hand under the Tilde ~ key that is called 'Tab'.. learn it live it love it.....

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