4.2 almost cleared in 2weeks? Expected?

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I'm never going to fly a plane because the Blue Angels make it look too easy.
I'm never going to perform brain surgery because people clear that crap daily.
Earth is dead because we already built stuff.
Earth is dead because we're already going into space.
R.I.P. Earth.



Really people? REALLY?
Thats rubbish. I dont need to have climbed Mount Everest to know its hard. Arguments along the line of "you haven't done it so you can't comment" is just fanboism.

Thats like saying I can't have an opinion on sports because I have never played for my country/top league. Thats like saying I can't have an opinion on films/music/tv/plays because I've never made one.


You actually can't know well how Everest is like unless you've actually attempted it, at best you can say what other sources told you. You can say "I've read Everest is hard", or "Experts have told me that Everest is hard", but you can't make any kind of statement from your own experience when you have no experience in the matter at hand.

07/08/2011 12:32 PMPosted by Madmonk
Thats like saying I can't have an opinion on sports because I have never played for my country/top league. Thats like saying I can't have an opinion on films/music/tv/plays because I've never made one.


Both horrible analogies. If you're played a sport, you can have an opinion on playing that sport. Now if we're talking specifically about professional sports, then no, you don't really know what professional sports are like from watching them on TV, you would need some real experience to qualify as any kind of authority.

With music you can be fully qualified in what you think sounds good, even make statements based on your experience with listening to a range of music. But if we're talking abotu producing music then again, you can't talk with any authority of experience without some actual experience in producing music.

Likewise, to speak on doing these raids with any authority, you need actual experience before your opinion matters. Don't come on here to repeat what you've heard from other sources, as those sources can already speak for themselves.
Did you even try Heroic LK? Even with 50 attempts left, he was far from easy. Easily the hardest boss ever made, even with 30% buff.

Did you even raid in BC? It was -not- hard. It had 2 overtuned bosses early on, Illidan was a joke, Sunwell had gated fights so you couldn't progress as fast as you wanted. I raided with a semi Hardcore guild and managed to have every boss down before the next gate opened. Rose tinted glasses are not cool at all.
heh Firelands is such a joke, the thrash took longer to clear then all bosses on normal. Imagine how many more people will quit because blizzard make us do that 7 boss joke raid for months.
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


Too bad we don't have the option to like or dislike blue posts. This is definitely a LIKE!
07/08/2011 12:42 PMPosted by Madmonk
Of course the guild that got the world first hardmode lich king is going to say that. How many world firsts did Paragon get in BC? None. If Lich King was so much harder than BC content then why didnt they get world firsts in BC?


To quote from their website: "Paragon was formed by the core members of Knockout (Twisting Nether) and Sauna (Stormreaver) for Wrath of the Lich King in August 2008."
Thats rubbish. I dont need to have climbed Mount Everest to know its hard. Arguments along the line of "you haven't done it so you can't comment" is just fanboism.

Thats like saying I can't have an opinion on sports because I have never played for my country/top league. Thats like saying I can't have an opinion on films/music/tv/plays because I've never made one.


It's not rubbish. Not in this case. Your real life analogies fail because they are not accurate. You can't claim the raids suck or are too easy of you haven't stepped foot in them. It's like saying, "X book/movie/song/ sucks" without ever having read, watched, or heard it. You just can't.

But people do care. Back in the days of classic and BC people, even those who werent high end raiders, followed raid progression.


No they didn't. Look at stats and tell me what percentage of the playerbase saw Illidan, Archimonde, or Kil'jaeden. Many players never got passed Kara and maybe a few attempts onf Gruul or Mag, and then later stuck to ZA.
Just gonna sit back and watch people try to compare raid models between expansions with such futility.
07/08/2011 12:59 PMPosted by Choplifter
To quote from their website: "Paragon was formed by the core members of Knockout (Twisting Nether) and Sauna (Stormreaver) for Wrath of the Lich King in August 2008."


And none of those players got world firsts in Classic or BC. And if the guild only started for WotLK how can they comment on Classic and BC bosses?

Ahh, fanbois. Gotta love 'em. So easy to destroy their arguments.


He asked why Paragon never got world firsts in BC. They didn't get them because they didn't exist. Not sure whose argument you think you destroyed with that but it certainly wasn't mine. Heck, I'm not even sure I was arguing anything aside from Paragon's non-existence...which really can't be disputed.
The Firelands bosses are generally well designed and fun (beats the heck out of the boring dailies).

I'm not, however, a fan of the current "flip a switch" heroic modes. Ulduar (and 3 drake) hard modes were generally more interesting because -- while doing the normal modes -- you could see how close you were getting to be able to do the hard modes. How close were you to breaking XT's heart? Or running Thorim's gauntlet? A number of bosses had ways to more gradually ramp up difficulty: Yogg, Flame Lev, Freya, 3 Drakes.

But this method of hard modes got dropped because they were more work to design. A shame. I've been in plenty of groups that, fresh off of clearing the end boss on normal last week, switch to heroic and try out that first boss that's been on farm for weeks. They get wiped in seconds (see e.g. ToC's The Beasts of Northrend). That's really demoralizing to the average raid group.

I know I haven't been in particularly elite groups, but the vast majority of raiders aren't that elite. They try a few hard modes, get stomped hard, and give up. They probably could do at least the first 4 with enough practice, but their egos were broken pretty hard. Even though they knew the fight was supposed to be hard.
07/08/2011 12:49 PMPosted by Choplifter
Rubbish. But also if someone is posting here on the forums then they HAVE played the game which entitles them to an opinion by your argument.


They're entitled to opinions about the content they've already done and the mechanics they've already experienced. Otherwise any opinions you've formed on the current content are from hearsay.



07/08/2011 12:49 PMPosted by Choplifter
dont need to step foot into firelands to have an opionion. People who say that are just fanbois who cant form an actual argument so they resort to attacking the player.


You do in fact need some experience on the content you're talking about for your opinion to hold any weight, otherwise you're just someone parroting the words of other people. And so far it seems once again it's the disgruntled fanbois who are mad. This is simple logic: To talk about something with authority, you need some actual experience.

Looking at your profile for someone who has played since classic you havent done much raiding wise. Maybe I should say your opinion is invalid?


If I were to comment on a fight I haven't done my opinion certainly would be invalid. Tell me, where have I stated an opinion on how hard or easy any of the Fireland's bosses are?

Blizzard told us that heroic and hardmodes was going to solve the Hyjal/BT and SWP problem. That average players could do normal modes and raiders would be challenged by hardmode.


You seem one of those players much more concerned about griping than actually playing the game. Try stepping into Firelands,you might actually like some of the fights.
But what I love about you fanbois is that most of you come out against Classic WoW when people ask for Classic servers. The Blizz slaves moan about how terrible raiding in Classic was but yet none of them downed KT pre 2.0. Surely fanbois dont have double standards do they? I mean when the Blizzard worshippers dislike something in WoW they dont need to have done the content but when someone dislikes current content they need to have done the content? Hmmmm ...


You're starting to come off as a Vanilla WoW fanboi who's grown disgruntled. And as always, it's the disgruntled fanbois that are the worse, those that bitterly cling to the past like a drowning man clinging to wreckage.

07/08/2011 01:07 PMPosted by Choplifter
And I would take an opinion from someone who raided Naxx in classic and SWP in BC over a wrath kiddie, even if he/she had never stepped foot into a raid into Cataclysm raid and the wrath kiddie had.


Yep, disgruntled fanboi. Clings to the past, can't stand change and only stays subscribed so he can whine about how things used to be.

What I find amusing is that you've been playing from classic but yet your Zandalar rep was neutral, Hydraxian only friendly. You couldnt even clear Karazhan pre 3.0 and didnt even get 25m LK normal done yet you seem to think your an expert on raiding?


Uh, where did I claim to be an expert on raiding :) ? Go ahead, look through my posts here. Where have I judged content that I havent' done?
07/08/2011 08:13 AMPosted by Cindyanne
Guilds spend all their time on the PTR so they breeze through Live.


This is a good point.


Those guilds LIVE on the PTR and learn the fights first hand. Some of the classes are very OP on the PTR, making it easier for them.

So they get to the live servers and... well... clear in no time, make youtube vids of it, write strategy blogs for everyone else to follow who also breeze through it faster.

I don't think Blizzard designs content around the fact that people know the encounters before it's even released. Then people complain how easy it is.

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