can someone explain?

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07/12/2011 02:58 PMPosted by Onashonawe
I only ask one thing. the ability to turn the stupid thing off. If i get into a dungeon in progress, and am trying to figure out where people are, the boss images completely block the tracking dots with no way i can find to turn it off.


So very, very much this...
I play with the reduced size map (not shift+m, the one that's 1/4ish of the screen). You literally can't see anything but faces in some zones. I'm looking at you ZA and ZG...
honestly the only good thing about the dungeon journal for me was the little bits of Lore sadly...I'm still using Atlasloot and why bother looking at the abilities and such when i can easily go online and find the abilities AND a few different Strats on how to take the boss down... no offense blizz but i think u wasted ur time :/ but i suppose the journal is more for people who are kinda new or just need a little refresh which i applaud you for...
07/12/2011 11:03 AMPosted by Nethaera
If there seems to be missing information, it's because we currently only have the Cataclysm dungeons and raids in the system and plan to add all of the rest of the dungeons and raids at some point in the future.

A dungeon journal that is missing information is useless.
What I had hoped for with the Dungeon Journal was basically a guide like I would find on an external site but in game, one that I could point the people in LFD to who can't fathom having to research/learn anything outside of the game. What I got was basically a listing of abilities (a sometimes incomplete list too) that can be easily found on wowhead.

The problem is what is really needed is a tool that people who are new to an instance can read on how to do the fights, not a list of the bosses abilities. 9 times out of 10 I get a group, and I get the guy who says "this is my first time, please explain all fights to me." That's if I'm lucky though, a lot of the time he just doesn't say anything or says he knows the fights and dies every single pull. I always ask them to leave and go to wowhead, youtube, some place and actually watch a video/read a strategy before re-queueing. As I did this before I ever started running the places (it took me all of 10 minutes for both ZA/ZG, honestly).

So until the dungeon journal starts providing useful information, it's unfortunately useless to me (atlasloot still presents loot better (and all of it), and the "guide" portion isn't a guide at all).
07/12/2011 11:03 AMPosted by Nethaera
It is not there to provide strategies.


Darn and I really wanted you to hold my hands when I went into those scary heroics with those even scarier PUGs :)

Peace
07/13/2011 08:01 AMPosted by Lokill
It not providing STRATEGIES is a good thing, thats what teamwork and communication is for.


Which is fine for raid encounters I guess (though my guess is everyone has already went to an external site and read a strategy anyway, so nothing lost by adding it). However, for 5 mans, it's a hindrance, as it's exactly what is needed, since people refuse to do any research, and instead expect you to take the time to teach them. That's NOT what I want to do when I do a 5 man for VP, I want something I can point them to and say "READ THAT!"
We are looking at the concerns over the faces blocking the map view in the Dungeon Journal. We're aware of this concern and may provide an option to turn them off at a future point in time. We'll provide information on this though when we are able.

As for the concerns over accuracy, there is always the potential for information to change based on adjustments made to the bosses and the fights. Overall though, the Dungeon Journal should be seen as an accurate representation of the boss fights and abilities. We have seen a lot of misunderstandings or inaccurate information provided via external sources and hope that the Dungeon Journal can better shore up those external sources with its information.

As for some concerns over missing loot, we did purposefully leave out "grab-bag" items. Meaning, items that have the potential for dropping on multiple bosses were not added to the listing of items. We may choose to change this decision at a future point in time if we feel that it's causing additional confusion. For now though, just be aware that these items do not appear in the listed loot tables.
First of all, the sole intention of the Dungeon Journal isn't simply for loot purposes. It's not even comparable to Atlas Loot, considering Atlas Loot lists all of the faction items, patterns, item costs, materials, etc. Worthless comparison.

Second, it wasn't developed to lay out strategies for people and make the bosses completely mindless. It's there to lay out the bosses major abilities so players can create their strategies more effectively.

It's actually a great tool, if used properly. Also: If you don't like it, don't use it. Complaining over something that is not forced on you is just lame.
07/13/2011 09:02 AMPosted by Nethaera
As for the concerns over accuracy, there is always the potential for information to change based on adjustments made to the bosses and the fights. Overall though, the Dungeon Journal should be seen as an accurate representation of the boss fights and abilities. We have seen a lot of misunderstandings or inaccurate information provided via external sources and hope that the Dungeon Journal can better shore up those external sources with its information.

A lot of information is missing on certain fights, especially Shannox. There's no mention of the fact that Riplimb is immune to slows EXCEPT when he's fetching the spear. It doesn't say anything about how Shannox and the dogs are untauntable. And lastly, it doesn't talk about how Shannox can't apply his bleed when he's thrown his spear.

These three things are incredibly important to understanding the fight.
07/13/2011 09:02 AMPosted by Nethaera
For now though, just be aware that these items do not appear in the listed loot tables.

And that's why i re-installed Atlas Loot. It would be awesome if you add this kind of things and a way to browse crafted stuff so i don't have to rely that much on addons.
07/13/2011 09:25 AMPosted by Muspel
As for the concerns over accuracy, there is always the potential for information to change based on adjustments made to the bosses and the fights. Overall though, the Dungeon Journal should be seen as an accurate representation of the boss fights and abilities. We have seen a lot of misunderstandings or inaccurate information provided via external sources and hope that the Dungeon Journal can better shore up those external sources with its information.

A lot of information is missing on certain fights, especially Shannox. There's no mention of the fact that Riplimb is immune to slows EXCEPT when he's fetching the spear. It doesn't say anything about how Shannox and the dogs are untauntable. And lastly, it doesn't talk about how Shannox can't apply his bleed when he's thrown his spear.

These three things are incredibly important to understanding the fight.


It also doesn't mention separation anxiety. Or explain Rhyolith at all, really. I guess it's nice to have as a quick reference but the fact that it still requires me to go external sources for the ABILITIES, not even for the strategies, is still a bit disheartening.
07/13/2011 09:25 AMPosted by Muspel
These three things are incredibly important to understanding the fight.


Important information, yes. Something the player should figure out on their own as well. They list the abilities, not the ways to counter-act the abilities. Some people keep them at a distance, some people use 3 tanks. That's all dependent on strategy, nothing more.

07/13/2011 09:30 AMPosted by Lokill
I will admit, it IS a nice surprise to see loot show up that you didnt know existed (not all of us read datamined websites and ruin the surprise of what our present might be).


Knowing the loot ahead of time from a website that datamines the info is any different than seeing it before hand in game via addon or anything else? I suppose you don't bother with websites that list your BiS items either, or programs like Rawr?
A lot of information is missing on certain fights, especially Shannox. There's no mention of the fact that Riplimb is immune to slows EXCEPT when he's fetching the spear. It doesn't say anything about how Shannox and the dogs are untauntable. And lastly, it doesn't talk about how Shannox can't apply his bleed when he's thrown his spear.

These three things are incredibly important to understanding the fight.


It's obvious that Blizzard made a mistake by not granting the loot in Firelands to each player just for logging in.
i like the whole boss faces on the map thing and wouldn't mind being able to turn them off, but there should be an option for if the boss is dead while your in the instance it should have an X over his face. i thought that would be neat
We are looking at the concerns over the faces blocking the map view in the Dungeon Journal. We're aware of this concern and may provide an option to turn them off at a future point in time. We'll provide information on this though when we are able.

As for the concerns over accuracy, there is always the potential for information to change based on adjustments made to the bosses and the fights. Overall though, the Dungeon Journal should be seen as an accurate representation of the boss fights and abilities. We have seen a lot of misunderstandings or inaccurate information provided via external sources and hope that the Dungeon Journal can better shore up those external sources with its information.

As for some concerns over missing loot, we did purposefully leave out "grab-bag" items. Meaning, items that have the potential for dropping on multiple bosses were not added to the listing of items. We may choose to change this decision at a future point in time if we feel that it's causing additional confusion. For now though, just be aware that these items do not appear in the listed loot tables.


Another thing I noticed is that ZA/ZG (and other heroic only bosses like Vanessa) are not in there due to being heroic only. I understand doing that for raids but doing that for a 5 man is kinda silly.
We are looking at the concerns over the faces blocking the map view in the Dungeon Journal. We're aware of this concern and may provide an option to turn them off at a future point in time. We'll provide information on this though when we are able.


Or just make them smaller...the size of the little skull that shows boss location on the maps.
They'd still be plenty clickable

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