A Brief History of Alterac Valley

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Definitely miss the old AV, and fully support the reasonable changes suggested here for restoring it to it's former glory.
Victory or Death!!
I love you. This deserves to be on the front page again too.
Bump, and requested sticky
Just like za/zg on its own dungeon queue, AV and IoC should be on its own queue, let the big 40man bg's play out, and people who don't want to do them don't have to queue for them.
I too am requesting sticky, as should everyone who reads this wonderful post from Foury.

I would like to reiterate his point made about what AV was intended to be as another Zone, set aside for PvP only. To understand it fully, new players must understand the importance of World PvP.

In vanilla, World PvP was a huge thing. I mean incredible. You couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a player from another faction, and those in PvP realms had to always be on their toes when questing, farming, etc. It was this world PvP that gave a greater appreciation to AV, which was, in its purest form, world PvP: a zone meant for the purpose of fighting players with objectives that gave you options to do so. The then heavily-contestd plaguelands were constant battles that didn't need any wait to jump into, with satisfying rewards at the time.

Burning Crusade meant that most of the population in Azeroth moved into Outland, which is smaller by far than Azeroth, and on top of that you could now FLY places, which meant that questing and farming players needed to not only watch out horizontally, but now vertically.
The only entrance to outland, that portal of pain, could have been considered a BG of its own in the early days (who remembers dying no less than five times to get into outland, then another five trying to get OUT?) It was chaos on account of the demon army that assaulted the place constantly along with players. Hellfire Penninsula, Zangarmarsh, Naagrand, Terrokar. These zones were World PvP at their finest, because it was simple but far from easy to hold dominance over a territory.
AV in its finest days was exactly that: dominance over a territory, one that gave satisfaction from winning and teeth-grinding agony from losing.

WotLK came out, and things changed. Each faction had different starting ports. Close together, enough that you would see other players and fight occasionally, but apart. Seperate but equal, to be blunt. As levels got higher players spread out and World PvP declined sharply. Wintergrasp was the pin that held it together: a hybrid BG/ World PvP zone that came with exceptional rewards of its own. The problem was, it was trying to emulate the epic scale of the now long-lost vanilla AV, something that just could not be done with the conditions of the battle. After WG battles were over, World PvP went stale as the victors collected shards and butthurt losers occasionally ganked or waited around for two hours for the next battle.

Now? Go to the plaguelands. Go to Outland. Go to Wintergrasp. Count the enemy players you accidently bump into and fight for fighting's sake. I'll bet you could do it on your fingers. Each new content expansion means that the old one will be abandoned, cast aside like bones from a delicious meal for the newer players to gnaw on, having some of the flavor remaining but never knowing the true delicacy of the full meal.

This is why AV needs to be reset to its original state: It is the World PvP Zone that will never be outdated!

If you have plans for new content BG's, We the people of this World of Warcraft urge you, Blizzard, to put it aside for a while if not altogether and bring back old Alterac Valley. I gaurantee that whatever exclusive BG or World PvP zone you put out there in the future will eventually look like Outland and Wintergrasp: barren, dry husks, remembered fondly by those who were there and a relic to the new generation of WoW players.

Time will take all World PvP Zones eventually, but old AV can be timeless, frozen in metaphor and in fact, always there for players ready to answer the Call to Arms, ready to fight for hours just to say they WON such a battle. There are seven other BG's out there to fight in. Give AV back to the World PvPers by resetting it!

/signed, thank you Foury, and thank you for anyone who took the time to read his post.
So true... All of it. And bump for great justice!

Just ran AV weekend. Very little PVP, way too much a PVE race.
08/30/2011 09:16 PMPosted by Docjin
Just like za/zg on its own dungeon queue, AV and IoC should be on its own queue, let the big 40man bg's play out, and people who don't want to do them don't have to queue for them.

Add SOTA as well. Blizz will learn which BG's people like.
Totally agree with op. I loved the old av. All my toons on my old account would level up and rank up via av. Honestly, it was the best bg hands down.


P.S. it was common for me to get exalted in AV on most of my toons. Earning the horn of the frostwolf howler the purple trinket were truely great to work towards... ahhh the memories.....
I would post in all caps but I wont, but I will with this:


This is perfect for those who like to say Old AV isn't any different, and that current AV is better.

I have bookmarked this page and I 100% Support that this should be stickied.

AV used to be one of the Greatest parts of this game. The Sad part is I think I never see it coming back, oh Blizz will say they want to bring it back but it wont be.

Inc IoC 2.0 >.<
Speaking as someone who has been playing since Vanilla, who played in realm only AV games that lasted a day long, and being so happy for cross-realm AV when it was introduced, you're post makes so much sense to me. I want the new players who never got to experience the fun of old AV to experience it. It was so fun, even after hour by hour, and the less hardcore not getting a debuff after 30 minutes makes so much sense...

We can't let this thread die, not until us, the customers, get what we want. I'm going to post at least once a week.
I never got to experience the old AV, for I joined halfway through BC, and got my character to 35. But my account was then hacked. I got a new one in Wrath, and only got to play it then. This old AV that you talk about makes me remember what I though WoW would be like when I started.
I never played the old AV, but I loved the large PvP battles in IoS, WG, and TB (not the PvW, the very rare PvP when you got in the base), and I love it when we go on D in AV because there is so much more fun defending towers and actually fighting the other team. Once my team got the elemental lord and solider upgrades and that was AWESOME, but it lasted like 5 minutes and the game ended due to reinforcements. Hearing about this masterpiece post by the OP makes me want to experience the old AV at least once. Please Blizzard? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease?
I can't like this post enough. The old AV combined everything that was great about PvP and PvE in one place. It also seemed to me to be the best representation of the struggle between Horde and Alliance. Please Blizz, bring it back!!
/applaud OP, excellent post. Well organized, did research, sourced.

I actually made a post about this on General yesterday, and it got a good amount of replies, with i would say the majority in favor for Old AV.

We are tired of excuses Blizzard, we dont care if its easier for new BGs, we have made it clear time and time again, BRING BACK OLD AV. THANK YOU.

A little story from back in the day.

I was playing alliance lvl 60 gnome mage at the time. I remember we were pushed back into our base, the horde was fighting us on the bridge. Being b4 cross realm, everyone kinda knew each other, i remember this famous warrior, he was at the lead of the attack. He had so many healers with him that he would not die. As they inched closer into our base, we unleashed I believe they were called "Druids of the grove" or something like that. We summoned these druids, and they trampled the horde, all the way back into their base. We ended up winning that game. It lasted for hours, but the memories and fun that i had during those games out weigh any reward or any amount of honor forever. Those were truly the golden days. True fun times.

Experiences like these are lacking.
Op, You're a wonderful writer and if it should ever come to poll I cry out in glee "Yes, yes, Bring back old AV"
Sounds like great fun! Thanks Foury the great post :D

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