How To Implement Cross-Realm Raid Finder

General Discussion
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Looking forward to it blizz and looking forward to seeing some epic fail's too.
Not to troll but sometimes its hard to get into a raid some of us just keep to ourselves. I really want to raid but the raid finder nobody wants to use. I posted in trade and everyone was like random dungeons is bad enough because fail players use it.
So It would be nice to have a raid across relms and bonuses for everyone who uses raid finder. I am talking about Dps, Heals, and Tank all getting a bag of gold or something. Maybe even a peice of the special armor you are supposed to get for the raids.
08/16/2011 02:30 PMPosted by Zarhym
We have some plans. They're good plans.

Z....are you....are you a Cylon? D:
I was thinking, when queuing as a raid leader maybe they should have some customization options such as how many heals, and if you need any specific spec/class for any reason. Say the RF wants 3 heals for 10m omnotron, but you, as RL, would prefer to have 2 for the extra dps. In that case, the RF would then look for 2 higher ilvl healers with more completions of the encounter. Just a thought :)
08/23/2011 12:08 PMPosted by Astonn
#1. Why? There's absolutely no reason for this, since most pugs will just wipe anyway, and if they do make it through somehow, cool for them. Doesn't hurt you in any way.

I put that rule in there to ensure that guild groups still had something to do and that server community wouldn't be entirely demolished. I honestly don't have anything against it, but when I wrote this list I tried to think of all the possible objections that could come up and I knew that "This is going to destroy guilds and server community!" would probably be one of the most valid, so I decided to try to work around it this way.

08/23/2011 12:08 PMPosted by Astonn
#2. Again, kinda pointless, since you have a raid lockout anyway. It would be much, much simpler to just put a RF lockout and an in-realm lockout, with the option to transfer one over to the other (for example, if you're 5/7 on your realm, you can look for 5/7 raids through RF)

That's exactly what I said. I probably should have done better to clarify it though, because re-reading it I guess it is kind of fuzzy.

08/23/2011 12:08 PMPosted by Astonn
#3. No. Just no. That's stupid as hell and again there's no reason for it, especially seeing as you can get all the VP you need from Zuls anyway.

I thought that offering at least a pittance of VP's would encourage people who would otherwise be reluctant to use the tool to give it a chance. Could go either way, really. It's not a must.

08/23/2011 12:08 PMPosted by Astonn
#4. Again, stupid. Do people read the ToS before clicking "Yes"? No, they don't. Will they actually read the encounters, or will they just click the tabs and then exit out? I think the latter. It's a waste of time.

There's a big difference between the ToS and the Dungeon Journal. The ToS is a bunch of legalspeak mumbo jumbo that isn't really very interesting, especially at the times that you have to read it, either before a new patch and you can't wait to jump in, or when you're just starting out the game. Either way, nobody's really in the mood to read them under those circumstances.

I think there's quite a few people who would do just what you're saying, flip through and zip around and not read anything. Those will be the people getting kicked. But I also think that if you say it's necessary then a lot of players really will do it and the groups in general will be better for it. It's kind of like the yellow line on the subway platform, of course not everybody stays behind it at all times, but enough do that people falling over the side and getting electrocuted is pretty rare.

08/23/2011 12:08 PMPosted by Astonn
#7. Again, pointless. If people want to use Raid Finder to wipe on Heroic raids, how does that hurt you in any way?

See my reply to number one.

08/23/2011 12:08 PMPosted by Astonn
#8. Need a Raid Leader? Yes. Should people who have completed the content get priority/get queued together? No

I put that in there to make sure that at least one person in the group knows what's going on, although in reality it would probably be a few more. You can't have the blind leading the blind. I figured if you give people who already have achieves an incentive to use the tool and teach the people that don't know the fights as well then they'll be more likely to use it instead of just PuGging Trade.

08/23/2011 12:08 PMPosted by Astonn
#9. No. What if you get someone who comes in with full PvP? What if you get someone with like 365 Daily gear and then 346s? What if someone pulls to troll the group? You're telling me I have to wipe twice and start running up a repair bill to kick ONE of them? And what if there's a troll AND a PvP set, or a PvP set and some bad noob?

What's stopping any of those things from happening in the Dungeon Finder? The PvP gear is a separate issue that I don't have an answer to. Make all PvP gear ilvl 1, I don't know.

As far as the trolling/griefing goes, that's going to happen no matter what. There will always be idiots who are out to ruin other people's fun. Not a valid reason to deny something to the majority of the community that will not abuse it or use it to make other players' gaming experience less pleasurable.

08/23/2011 12:08 PMPosted by Astonn
There should also be something restricting from rolling Need on a piece of gear you've already gotten.

I agree.

08/23/2011 12:08 PMPosted by Astonn
Basically, you tried to make it so that casuals couldn't get current tier gear, then put restrictions on it that wouldn't help anyone except elites.

Really? I myself am a casual and I thought what I suggested was totally fair. Did you read any of my other posts in the thread after this one? The impetus for the entire idea was to take the power out of the hands of the elites and let the rest of us run what we want when we want. They can't keep us out anymore. I thought I had designed the system to retain the challenge and hard work that is necessary to get the rewards, but in such a way that would make the content accessible to everybody equally.

Also, bear in mind, the thread wasn't written with current-tier stuff in mind, it was made in reply to the T11 helm/shoulders for JP rumble.
08/23/2011 07:01 PMPosted by Siull
Yeah, the power is in -our- hands. It's our fault you can't follow simple mechanics in a fight.

How does being able to or not being able to follow the mechanics in a fight have anything to do with not being in a raiding guild or not having time to raid the way it's set up now? The issue (as I've told you a hundred times and you just choose to keep ignoring) is not being able to do the the dungeon journal and watch videos, it's not freaking rocket science...The issue is being able to even get into the instances to try them. This thread is not about "Most people don't have the skills to raid so please blizz nerf everything and give us free gear", it's about "People in Trade are jerks and won't give you a shot at raids unless you already have an achievement. Please give us a way to earn achievements without having to go through these people."

Not once have I said "nerf this please"...I've even said that I wish the nerfs could be undone. Nobody is asking for an easy fight, we're just asking for a chance to get into a fight. Something you seem to know all about because you've been begging for one with me ever since you entered this thread.
What a fantastic wow thread!

Of all my years of lurking in the wow forums, I don't think I have ever posted on the wow general forums, but I really wanted to come out and put my support behind this idea.

First off, kudos to the OP for putting together a well thought out post and staying with it, updating and modifying his ideas as he got feedback (both positive and negative) from the community. And well done for not losing your cool with the unconstructive feedback from some of the posters in this thread, but instead calmly expressing your opinion, and presenting constructive counter arguments.

Secondly, thumbs up to the majority of posters here who have provided constructive feedback, criticims, as well as stories on their own experiences. I think most of the posts here has helped paint a picture on the communities thoughts from many different viewpoints.

I'm the essence of what you would call a casual gamer. The time I have for Wow is very unpredictable - there are times where I can sit for hours uninterrupted, and there are times where I only have an hour to quickly do a daily and logoff. A LFR tool would definitely help me make the most of my available gaming time.

To be honest, I've found that much of the arguments against the idea are quite baseless.

Destroying the community? Why? If anything, I would see it as a community skill building tool. You are building up the average skill base of the community by providing the large majority of them a way to see and experience content they would not otherwise be able to see.

"If you can't raid on your own, you'll fail in LFR." Don't agree here. I find myself in a catch-22. I cannot do content unless I have an achievement. I cannot get an achievement unless I do the content. What do I do?

"Get yourself into a guild and run with them." Wow is a casual game to me. That means I would like to log on, do whatever I want, and logoff whenever I want. This type of attitude is not possible in a guild. I used to be part of a fantastic raiding guild, but I had to leave because I just could not schedule blocks of my time to play games. Things come up - I need to work late, I need to go somewhere after work, my kid is sick, etc. Wow is very much a last priority for me - I play it when there is nothing more important that I need to do, and unfortunately that mentality does not fit in with a raiding guilds expectations (and nor should it!). Fortunately though, I believe there are many people in the same situation as me, who will all benefit from a tool like LFR.

"LFD is freakn horrible. How can LFR succeed?" Is my battlegroup awesome or something? I do not have the same problem that seem to run rampant in some people's opinions. Most of the time I get into a group that pretty much knows what they're doing, bosses gets killed, valor points are distributed, everyone goes their own way. Occasionally, you get a bad that doesn't really know what they're doing, but hey thats ok. This is a social game right? We all had to start somewhere. I really have no problem teaching someone how to do an encounter. Very very rarely, I will get a group that is so bad I just drop group after some terrible attempts. But that is extremely rare. Some posters here have made it out to be something that happens all the time, which I disagree with.

What I found extremely ironic is that some people say that this tool will destroy the community, yet in following posts, will declare that people who don't have the means to do a raid (e.g. having an achievement, not having the time to be in a raiding guild, etc) should not raid in the first place. Not exactly a community building attitude is it? A person who truly wants a thriving community should really be finding ways to help the community grow, not finding ways to stamp out those that do not fit into the mould of their "ideal" player.

Sorry about the wall of text. Didn't realise how long it was until I finished writing :(
Nice post. I'm pretty sure that just about everybody who backs this idea (and even quite a few that don't) share your concerns and now that we've got a tool like this coming into the game, we can only hope that it will address them adequately and do what we want it to do.
08/24/2011 12:09 AMPosted by Siull
So yeah, failure is all this is going to bring and I don't want to hear MORE complaining once people see it just WONT work.

For someone who doesn't want to hear complaining your'e sure doing a lot of it.
08/24/2011 12:09 AMPosted by Siull
The bold text negates what you just said cause you contradicted yourself.


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